Sharpening and using my MagnaCut Mule

sharp_edge

sharp_edge

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First off let me make it clear that I don't mean to say anything bad about Spyderco Mule Team or the MagnaCut steel IN GENERAL - I am not extrapolating anything and I am only talking about one of the two MagnaCut Mule Team knives that I recently purchased directly from spyderco.com. Some of you may have read my post in another thread about my experience of sharpening this knife.

Just a few moments I decided to sharpen again the knife to fix the imperfection of the edge due to chipping from my previous sharpening session. This time I decided to start with the "red" stone in the Lansky Deluxe 5-stone system, partly fearing the diamonds are too aggressive and partly wanting to stick to the edge bevel that's already set from previous session (I used a sharpie to make sure that's the case). Soon after I progressed to the "green" stone, I noticed that portion of the edge did not look right again (see pictures and video below). I touched it with my finger nail slightly and carefully and a thin line of steel went off. As I have sharpened this knife at least three times, I am now very concerned with it. I am afraid something with it is wrong from the factory.

While I do not claim myself as a sharpening expert, I have used the same sharpening system to successfully sharpen many dozens of knives, some of which are Spyderco's. I also don't think I was shooting for a too shallow angle - I used the 17 dps setting on Lansky but we all know the actual angle depends on a few other factors. As a reference, I put a PM2 in one of the pictures below that I recently resharpened. You can see the PM2 has much smaller dps.

CzVNib7.jpg

HLZoL1O.jpg

W3dIrKQ.jpg


https://imgur.com/4VddaYQ
4VddaYQ.mp4
 
It looks like a burr coming off. If it were me (and I know I'm wierd) I'd run the blade edge down on a medium stone until it was flat, then start over. I'd alternate sides on every stroke until I reached the apex without creating a burr. Just a suggestion from the peanut gallery.
 
Sounds similar to a maxemet pm2 I have

Took a few sessions to sharpen out what I would guess was a burnt edge , but now I have no issues sharpening it
 
I had a similar issue on my Rex 45 manix. I sharpening a few times on the kme and i have had no issues since
 
Hi Sharp_edge,

I'm sorry for your frustration.

I've not had any problems sharpening MagnaCut with either my Mule Team of my test Sage 5. I'm using a Sharpmaker. I would like to know if anyone else is having difficulty? All of the knives were ground, heat treated and sharpened the same way, so it would not be typical that one would be different. If you continue to have problems, you might send it to us to check and sharpen?

sal
 
Sal Glesser Sal Glesser - thank you for your attention. I'll give the knife another try of sharpening as others suggested. Let's see if it will become better. I'll report back. FYI, I tore the hanging piece of steel along the edge off. It's about 2.5" long. I'm keeping it in case the knife (and this piece) needs to go back to your place for testing.

yablanowitz yablanowitz - thanks for your quick response. If it is a burr, it's nothing like the kind of burrs that I have experienced before. But I am taking your advice to sharpen the knife again.
 
Ajack60 said:
Have you used a strop to see if the edge will clean up ?
Click to expand...

Yes I did. I used 6mu, 3mu, and finally 1mu diamond paste to strop the edge.

Just for anyone who is interested, I hand sharpened again the Mule with Ultrasharp 300 grit, 600 grit, and 1,200 grit diamond stones and finally stropped with the diamond pastes mentioned above. I did not measure exactly the DPS but I purposely keep it a bit steeper (maybe 20 DPS or more). This time I did not see portions of the edge flip flop and peel off as before although the final edge is definitely not as even, clean, and keen as what I can achieve with all other steels that I have tried by far (VG10, S30v, S35VN, M390/20CV/204P, K390, and ZDP-189). One thing positive about the knife is that it is easy to sharpen but overall I am disappointed with the sharpening result.

I am not sure what I will do with the knife going forward. But I'll definitely be interested in hearing other people's experience of sharpening and using this MagnaCut Mule.
 
sharp_edge said:
Yes I did. I used 6mu, 3mu, and finally 1mu diamond paste to strop the edge.

Just for anyone who is interested, I hand sharpened again the Mule with Ultrasharp 300 grit, 600 grit, and 1,200 grit diamond stones and finally stropped with the diamond pastes mentioned above. I did not measure exactly the DPS but I purposely keep it a bit steeper (maybe 20 DPS or more). This time I did not see portions of the edge flip flop and peel off as before although the final edge is definitely not as even, clean, and keen as what I can achieve with all other steels that I have tried by far (VG10, S30v, S35VN, M390/20CV/204P, K390, and ZDP-189). One thing positive about the knife is that it is easy to sharpen but overall I am disappointed with the sharpening result.

I am not sure what I will do with the knife going forward. But I'll definitely be interested in hearing other people's experience of sharpening and using this MagnaCut Mule.
Click to expand...
You should clearly take up Sal on his offer and send the knife to Spyderco so that they can check it out.
 
Sal Glesser said:
What was the dps you created when you were having difficulty?

sal
Click to expand...

Sal - I set the Lansky at 17 dps but like I said, the actual dps may vary due to factors like the height of the blade, how close the clamp is to the edge, and whether the two jaws of the clamp are parallel or angled. That comparing PM2 in one of the pictures above was also set to 17 dps but you can see the bevel width between it and the Mule is obviously different. I have to say that the main reason for me to sharpen this brand new Mule was actually not to see if it has any defect (that was never in my mind and even now I am not claiming it has any defect) but to get the first-hand experience of achieving a thin, keen, and neat edge with this exciting new steel.
 
Hi Sharp_edge,

It is my opinion that Lansky's sharpener's degrees are not accurate. (the late Arthur Levine was a friend of mine). Do you have a Sharpmaker? In my opinion, thin keen edges are something you sneak up on, not begin with.

I've always felt it odd that someone would get a brand new knife and change the original edge to something "they think might be better". I know a few "experts" that do that.

sal
 
This is just a guess. It looks like the edge is too thin. It appears that there isn’t enough steel behind the edge to support it and it tears off.
In comparison to the PM2, is the blade on the mule thinner than the PM2 ? Did you sharpie the factory edge to see where it lands on the Lansky and do you know how much you changed the factory edge ?
 
Sal - I change the factory edge on new knives quite often. I have done it with spyderco s30v Military, s30v PM2, bd1 Manix 2, VG-10/ZDP~189/k390 Delic 4, k390 Endela and many others of other brands. I almost always shoot for a bit lower dps than the factory edge, with maybe a few exceptions including a hinderer xm-18. I use the Sharpmaker to touch up and refine edge. It takes me too much time to sharpen with SM.

Did I try a lower dps on the new Mule than the factory one? I actually am not very sure because the 17 dps on Lansky may not be the actual dps. But comparing the sharpened edge of the Mule in these picture to the other new Mule, the edge bevel width looks about the same. Is the dps I was shooting for lower than any one I tried before on other knives? Absolutely not. The Mule is not a thick blade But I have much thinner ones (Delica, mini griptilian, and SAK) and thicker ones that I sharpened to low dps without any issues.

Ajack60 Ajack60 - I think you are right. It's a slice of the edge torn off. Again, I don't think I was shooting for a dps lower than what I usually do. Like I said, I later resharpened the mule with three Ultrasharp stones at a bigger dps (about the same as the factory dps?). and finished with stropping. The Knife can slice paper though not as sharp as my other knives fresh off the sharpening gear. Under a loupe, the edge is not as clean either. It could be that I need to sharpen a few more times to completely get rid of the factory edge

I don't rule out that this Knife may require certain minimum dps (bigger than I thought), certain sharpening stones/systems, and certain sharpening skills and as such, all we see here is the user error. The picture below is the latest edge as compared to the factory edge.

M6YZ4LH.jpg
 
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Hi Sharp_edge,

Thanx much for the feedback. Keep us posted on your results.

Edge geometry is a very delicate and ambiguous thing. That's why I say "the edge is a ghost". This is a new steel, and we are seeing that it has many properties that are different than other steels and that's why we are making Mule Teams. We make you part of the R&D in "Real-World-Testing" (RWT).

Naturally, the thinner the edge, the better it cuts, until it breaks. A thresh hold phenomena. We would all like to know just how thin the edge can be on a particular steel. And testing is the only real way to learn. Lab tests and calculating tests have their limitations.

It's a shame that we do not yet know where the failure point is on this steel, at this heat treat and edge geometry is, but as we continue to test we learn more, so thanx for sharing your experience.

sal
 
Thanks Sal. This is exactly why you are producing Mules. It's all about experimenting and pushing the limits of the steel. Sharpen - beat on the blade - re-sharpen - repeat.
 
sharp_edge said:
First off let me make it clear that I don't mean to say anything bad about Spyderco Mule Team or the MagnaCut steel IN GENERAL - I am not extrapolating anything and I am only talking about one of the two MagnaCut Mule Team knives that I recently purchased directly from spyderco.com. Some of you may have read my post in another thread about my experience of sharpening this knife.

Just a few moments I decided to sharpen again the knife to fix the imperfection of the edge due to chipping from my previous sharpening session. This time I decided to start with the "red" stone in the Lansky Deluxe 5-stone system, partly fearing the diamonds are too aggressive and partly wanting to stick to the edge bevel that's already set from previous session (I used a sharpie to make sure that's the case). Soon after I progressed to the "green" stone, I noticed that portion of the edge did not look right again (see pictures and video below). I touched it with my finger nail slightly and carefully and a thin line of steel went off. As I have sharpened this knife at least three times, I am now very concerned with it. I am afraid something with it is wrong from the factory.

While I do not claim myself as a sharpening expert, I have used the same sharpening system to successfully sharpen many dozens of knives, some of which are Spyderco's. I also don't think I was shooting for a too shallow angle - I used the 17 dps setting on Lansky but we all know the actual angle depends on a few other factors. As a reference, I put a PM2 in one of the pictures below that I recently resharpened. You can see the PM2 has much smaller dps.

CzVNib7.jpg

HLZoL1O.jpg

W3dIrKQ.jpg


https://imgur.com/4VddaYQ
4VddaYQ.mp4
Click to expand...

That edge look as a crisp as a biscuit.. :oops:
 
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