Sharpening Cera-Titan

J

jjvenier

Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
4
Hi All, and especially Terry,

I recently aquired a Boker Lambda (model 189) with a Cera-Titan blade. Based on everything I read it is a great blade material.

I am really disappointed in the edge -- it just isn't very sharp. I love the idea of a blade which can hold an edge for a long time, but not if it means not giving it much of an edge in the first place.

I was kind of embarrassed showing it off to my wife -- it would just kind of tear and wrinkle paper, and the lack of a sharp tip is hard to get used to.

I tried the old "arm hair test" on it, but could not get it to cut any of my hairs, no matter how hard I sawed on my arm. Incidentally, I had absolutely no fear of cutting myself in the process -- it just isn't a sharp knife. And I have cut myself on plastic picnic knives before, so it isn't like I've got especially tough skin.

I am used to blades which are in the range of shaving sharp to hair-popping sharp.

So, here are some questions:

Did I just get a bum blade, or is this the way they are usually shipped?

Is Cera-Titan capable of taking a keen edge, or does it have chipping problems when sharp?

If I send it back to Boker for the sharpening service, will it come back to me no sharper?

I have heard that Cera-Titan can be sharpened with ordinary equipment. I have Arkansas stones, will they put an edge on it? I have also heard that a ceramic hone is recommended. Is there a particular type which should be used?

Is there perhaps a "third party" sharpening service which can be used to put a keen edge on the blade?

If I thin out the blade near the edge (reducing the angle of the bevel) to improve cutting performance, will this risk excessive chipping?

Any advice you all can give me would be very welcome. I really like this knife except for the edge (or lack thereof) and if I could only get it sharp I would love it.

John

P.S. If I sharpen it on a belt or disc, how hot can I let Cera-Titan get?
 
jj,
I am sorry, you got a blade that is not up to our normal
standards. The CeraTitan is capable of taking a good edge,
and should cut right out of the box. It is more brittle and fragile
than a steel blade, and comparable to a ceramic.
For sharpening at home, we recommend using an extra fine
diamond system, like from DMT.
If the edge is sharpened to much, it does have a tendency to
want to chip.
But, if you got a defective knife, please send it back to us at
Boker, and I will take care of it for you, free of charge.
Our address is;
Boker USA, Inc
Attn: Repair Dept
1550 Balsam St
Lakewood, CO 80214
Please include a note with your name, address, and phone number.
Once again, I apologize, and will take care of it when we receive it.
Thanks, Terry
 
I too recently bought a Boker Lambda with the Cera-Titan blade. I purchased it from We Be Knives at Pier 39 in San Francisco. I didn't notice it when I bought it, but it was brought to my attention by a guy who does knife sharpening at the local farmers market (he asked to have a closer look at my Nimravus and I showed him the lambda as well) that the Lambda Cera-Titan appears to be ground at two different angles. He said he'd never seen anything quite like it before. Upon close inspection of both sides of the blade (something I hadn't done when I bought it) I realized he was right. One appears to have significantly more taper than the other side. I'm wondering: is this normal? Is it possible that someone at We Be Knives tried to sharpen it to a shaving edge and screwed up the matching aspect of the taper? Aren't the taper's SUPPOSED to match? I've never seen it done any other way except on a chisel ground blade. Most of the knives they sell at We Be Knives are out of their boxes so customers can see and hold the knives. The boker was no exception: in fact, they had to give me a different box, as they couldn't find the one that went with the model I was buying.

Inre: shaving / hair popping sharp. Mine was never that sharp either, even the day I got it. By way of comparison: every Benchmade I've ever bought was able to shave arm hair right out of the box. Is the cera-titan shipped with a duller "working edge" to eliminate chipping from the "average" user? I noticed the day I bought the Lambda Cera-Titan that it had a very small chip about a half an inch from the handle. Maybe someone dropped it in the store or when it was being packaged for shipping? I have used the Lambda only lightly since I bought it: mainly for opening a few letters, cutting soft foods when no other cutting instrument was around and cutting the occasional zip tie. Generally I'm very very nice to my knives: I never try to cut things you shouldn't cut with a knife, and the Boker has seen less work (mainly due to it's young status in my quiver) than many of my knives. It has kept pretty much the same edge it had the day I bought it, which speaks well of it so far in edge holding capability.
 
The angle seems right.
They are ground a bit different, to provide more
edge strength, which is also why they don't come shaving sharp.
The thinner the edge, the sharper, but with both ceramic
and CeraTitan, a thinner edge will chip faster. So, it is a compromise.
You can sharpen it to a thinner edge (CeraTitan) if you would like, though.
It is just a difference based on the materials used.
The chip, I don't know about, but you can send it in, if you would like,
and I'll take care of it for you.
Take care,
Terry
 
Hi Terry,

You know, the more I play with this blade the more I like it. I tend to test new blades right out of the box with push cuts on fine paper and hairs, and the Cera-Titan blade did not do too well with that.

But now that I have tried a number of different cuts and materials, it is clear that it is excellent at sawing cuts. Just the tiniest amount of drag along the length of the edge and the blade cuts very well.

I am beginning to suspect that the Cera-Titan may sharpen to a different kind of edge than steel, one with a much more pronounced "micro-serration" aspect. Of course, it could also be due to the particular sharpening technique at the factory along with an edge that does not wear very fast -- something like micro-serrations which do not wear out / tear out.

In any case, I think I was too hasty in my judgement. While push cuts may be a problem, I could easily cut squares of paper from the middle of the page using only the tip. And as I mentioned if one drags the edge while cutting, it cuts very well.

So I don't think I got a defective knife, just one with a material and / or edge that I am not used to.

Following Terry's advice, I ordered a DMT diamond sharpening setup and can't wait to try it out on this knife and the others I have. Terry, I owe you one for pointing them out to me -- they get incredible reviews. I'll let you all know what I find out if you like.

Given the relative brittleness of the Cera-Titan and my desire for a really sharp edge, I am thinking the right solution for my may be some sort of convex or appleseed edge -- the sort that the cutting competition folks put on their blades for a good combination of strength and sharpness. What do you think?

Also, if I try sharpening the Cera-Titan on a belt, do you think I need to watch out for overheating the Cera-Titan? It is not much of a concern with steel, but you can get some heat generated when using a belt, and I'd hate to ruin the blade by cooking it. Any idea?

Thanks for your prompt reply Terry and your generous offer of assistance -- you are a credit to Boker! I'd take you up on it but I honestly don't think I got a bum blade. Unless you could convice the sharpening folks to make it shaving sharp ;)

John
 
Thank you for the kind words, John, I appreciate it.

As far as using a belt to sharpen CeraTitan, I don't have any
experience with it, but I would recommend against it, based on the info
I have on the material. With it being so brittle, I think the belt could start taking chips out of the blade, unless it was revolving at an extreme high
rate of speed. For example, the wheel used to sharpen ceramics
revolves at 90,000 rpm.
I don't think it would be a problem due to heat, but due to the
fragile nature of the ceramic-titanium mix.
Thanks, Terry
 
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