Sharpening difficulties are they due to attributes of the steels or technique?

[me2]

With great care you can whittle hair from the brown rod flats. Get some sort of magnification and see what is really happening at the edge. A magnifying glass with the little 10x window built in is a good start.

How do you know you got to the edge with the diamond rods? If you had a burr form with the diamond rods, you should be able to easily shave hair after going up to the medium grit rods. One of three things could be happening that I can think of.

1. You haven't actually reached the edge yet. There may be a small barely visible bevel left and your 20 degree efforts are just polishing the sides of it. Make sure you have a burr from the diamond rods at 15 before going to the medium rods at 20.

2. You have redone the bevel, but there is still a small flat on the edge. Again, make sure you have a burr formed at the 15 degree slots before moving on.

3. The diamond rods are somewhat coarse, and your efforts on the brown stones have not removed the coarse scratches. You may need a lot more than the recommended 20 strokes to remove them and refine the edge.

To detect a burr, I will run the blade backwards, in a stropping motion, down my rather hairy arm. If there is a burr on that side, it will pull the hair. Be sure to check both sides. If you are one of the hairless apes, you can use any kind of fuzzy cloth. Look for the crud stuck to the burr after stropping on the cloth. The hair on the back of my head actually does a better job, but I hesitate to recommend that to anyone else, since unseen blades and necks do not mix well.

 

[cziv]

I sold my SharpMaker and haven't regretted it. Replaced it with a full set of DMT Dia-folds. You can get more sharpening done in 5 minutes with these than 5 hours with a SharpMaker. Love 'em. I know about the difficulty and thousands of strokes it takes with the SM. It's probably okay for a touch-up but backbeveling and applying secondary bevels that will shave on S30V and D2 - yikes!!!!!! :thumbdn:

 

[awestib]

I sold my SharpMaker and haven't regretted it. Replaced it with a full set of DMT Dia-folds. You can get more sharpening done in 5 minutes with these than 5 hours with a SharpMaker. Love 'em. I know about the difficulty and thousands of strokes it takes with the SM. It's probably okay for a touch-up but backbeveling and applying secondary bevels that will shave on S30V and D2 - yikes!!!!!! :thumbdn:

How do you ensure the correct angle with the DMT Dia-folds?

 

[awestib]

With great care you can whittle hair from the brown rod flats. Get some sort of magnification and see what is really happening at the edge. A magnifying glass with the little 10x window built in is a good start.

How do you know you got to the edge with the diamond rods? If you had a burr form with the diamond rods, you should be able to easily shave hair after going up to the medium grit rods. One of three things could be happening that I can think of.

1. You haven't actually reached the edge yet. There may be a small barely visible bevel left and your 20 degree efforts are just polishing the sides of it. Make sure you have a burr from the diamond rods at 15 before going to the medium rods at 20.

2. You have redone the bevel, but there is still a small flat on the edge. Again, make sure you have a burr formed at the 15 degree slots before moving on.

3. The diamond rods are somewhat coarse, and your efforts on the brown stones have not removed the coarse scratches. You may need a lot more than the recommended 20 strokes to remove them and refine the edge.

To detect a burr, I will run the blade backwards, in a stropping motion, down my rather hairy arm. If there is a burr on that side, it will pull the hair. Be sure to check both sides. If you are one of the hairless apes, you can use any kind of fuzzy cloth. Look for the crud stuck to the burr after stropping on the cloth. The hair on the back of my head actually does a better job, but I hesitate to recommend that to anyone else, since unseen blades and necks do not mix well.

Now I am getting confused, sorry but I am quite "fresh" in the sharpening business!
I think I am quite sure I had a burr when I used the diamond rods for 15 degr. But I also started the 20 degr. with the diamond rods until I had a burr! Was that wrong? I thought I have to create the bevels with the diamonds first and then use the medium rods. By the way, I am not able to feel a burr when I use the medium rods or at least I am not confident that what I felt was a burr but I thought the burr is too "fine" anyway. Maybe that's the problem? Maybe I am not doing it long enough or something?
Thanks.

 

[THG]

How do you ensure the correct angle with the DMT Dia-folds?

Great skill and practice.

Now I am getting confused, sorry but I am quite "fresh" in the sharpening business!
I think I am quite sure I had a burr when I used the diamond rods for 15 degr. But I also started the 20 degr. with the diamond rods until I had a burr! Was that wrong?

Yeah, you probably shouldn't have done that. After you had a burr at 15°, you created another bevel at the edge by using 20°. Now if you want 15° for a 30° inclusive edge, you're going to have to grind it back down until the bevels meet.

However, you can still use the 20+20=40° setting as it is. Once you have a burr, start doing 1 pass per side until it comes off.

Sharpie marks on the bevels will tell you everything. Do it.

 

[cziv]

How do you ensure the correct angle with the DMT Dia-folds?

Free handing with dia-folds is as simple as their training video - check it out. If it gets a little burr to one side I just give it a pass on the other til it feels even then a half dozen or so light passes on the strops (not mandatory) and my knives shave hair easily. I've given up on super mirror polish edges. I can get them but, 1.) They take a lot of work 2) I think a hair of toothiness in the edge, bites into meat, fruit, bad guy's a**es a lot more effectively. This is my opinion, YMMV.

I have all of the dia-folds from x-coarse to xx-fine but mostly touch up with the x-fine and xx-fine and a strop. I have but don't use the magna-guide which can be bought seperately or with them.

[YouTube]Y88jwelcdtU[/YouTube]

 

[Modoc ED]

As to the question in the title of this thread, "Sharpening difficulties are they due to attributes of the steels or technique?", my answer would be technique.

Sorry guys, I just can't wrap my head around using a microscope as a sharpening aid. I'm not implying or saying they aren't necessary but it's just too much for me.

I've got pretty much most sharpening tools -- Arkansas stones, Norton stones, Spyderco Sharpmaker, EZE-Lap stones, DMT stones, diafolds, etc. and mostly use DMT dual diafolds these days but much prefer my Norton combination coarse/fine India stones if time permits.

Sometimes I think we over-think and fret ourselves into the sharpening difficulties we have at times.

Once you've got a sharpening technique down pat and are having good (even great) results, stick with that technique and don't try to change it for every other technique published/presented and you'll have far fewer sharpening issues.

Just my .02¢

 

[dsmegst]

As to the question in the title of this thread, "Sharpening difficulties are they due to attributes of the steels or technique?", my answer would be technique.

Sorry guys, I just can't wrap my head around using a microscope as a sharpening aid. I'm not implying or saying they aren't necessary but it's just too much for me.

At a certain point, all this becomes an experimental game. The practicality goes out the window and we turn into knife nuts.

Most people are perfectly happy with their $50 knife sets and the easiest pull through sharpening device while the smarter folks learn to use 2 or 3 step oil stone set.

The crazy ones worry about carbides, hardness and sharpening mediums.


As for polishing compounds and whatever oxides that's being used, every single blade I own can be sharpened and honed with the white compound and the green compound. I've found diamond to be unnecessary. I don't think it's purely about the hardness.