Sharpening Help......!!!!!

if i had someone with a good camera to film me, i would make a vid. i teach guys who come by the house how to sharpen on both the paper wheels and the belt sander or even how to make a knife. the basics of sharpening one knife on a belt sander will work with any other since the only difference is blade shape. i have been sharpening knives for about 37 years and i have a lot of tricks that i use. some i'll share and others i keep to myself :D

i have a limit as to how thin i take an edge on any chopper someone sends me so there will be less of a chance to chip an edge and still have the knife sharp.
 
I sharpen my khuks on a Craftsman 1/42" belt grinder. This model of machine will also take 2" belts, but I prefer the 1" belts for sharpening recurves as I think the narrower belt allows the contour of the blade to be more accessible.

I don't worry about getting a really, really sharp edge on the khuks I use for chopping. For those I want an edge which is strong enough for extended use and sharp enough to bite so as to minimize glancing hits.

It's possible to sharpen a khuk on a belt grinder either by holding the edge up or down. Lately I've been doing most of my sharpening with the edge trailing, rather than edge first. This seems to do a fine job.

I've found that just about any grit 220 or finer can put a very usable edge on a khuk. I will often finish off the edge by steeling it and then polishing it with a ceramic rod.

Andy
 
KRBurke said:
Personally, I don't want my khuks shaving sharp. You can do it and they work well, but thats not their forte (IMO). They are for chopping. My karda now...THAT I have like a scalpel.
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I think you may be confusing a sharp edge with a thin edge. Both an acute and a more obtuse angle can have the same sharpness, but the very acute angle will slice and shave much better.


Maybe the sharpening gurus can tell me what I'm doing wrong (or right).

I have blades (usually small knives) that I can literally shave with. Others that I can't.

Yet, for carving wood, chopping, etc, the ones that are not razor sharp work better. Sometimes much better.

I'm thinking it's due to either a different geometry I put on, or maybe the not razor sharp ones have microserrations that saw the wood fibers rather than try to cut them,
 
Cpl Punishment,
sometimes a toothy "apparently duller edge" will slice better also you are less likely to get the edge so thin that it "rolls" or deforms with use. <y Benchmade Stryker almost feels butter knife dull to the touch but will whittle hair and "chop" pretty easy. If you are doing it "right" finer grits help an edge last longer if you are doing it wrong you'll lose a usable edge quicker. I still screw up from time to time so I'm in no position to try and teach it.
One of the nice things about Richard's paper wheels is that it is easier to create a burr then remove it making it less likely to get a "wire burr/edge".

Personally I re-profile with a Harbor Freight 1x30 belt sander carefully, I also use it for lawnmower blades and axes.

Below is my strop, 2 sided (different compound on each side) made from walnut & 10weight leather
 

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KRBurke said:
Personally, I don't want my khuks shaving sharp. You can do it and they work well, but thats not their forte (IMO). They are for chopping. My karda now...THAT I have like a scalpel.
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No - the SWEET SPOT of the kukri is for chopping ;)
The kukri has more than one "working edge", and it can be quite beneficial to have the other sections shaving sharp and also at a more acute angle than the sweet spot. Check out my INFO thread here for a more in depth explanation.

Cpl Punishment said:
I think you may be confusing a sharp edge with a thin edge. Both an acute and a more obtuse angle can have the same sharpness, but the very acute angle will slice and shave much better.
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Correcto. I've put shaving sharp edges on fairly obtuse splitting mauls just for fun. An edge doesn't need to be very acute to shave - just fairly refined and aligned.

Cpl Punishment said:
Maybe the sharpening gurus can tell me what I'm doing wrong (or right).

I have blades (usually small knives) that I can literally shave with. Others that I can't.

Yet, for carving wood, chopping, etc, the ones that are not razor sharp work better. Sometimes much better.

I'm thinking it's due to either a different geometry I put on, or maybe the not razor sharp ones have microserrations that saw the wood fibers rather than try to cut them,
Click to expand...

You're right on the money. A highly polished edge push cuts better whereas a less polished one slices better. Since you tend to do a lot of slicing motions in bushcraft, it can be beneficial to keep your knife a bit less polished. I personally find 400-600grit a good finishing point for most knives. This is however, more than fine enough a polish to allow for a shaving edge (albeit an uncomfortable shave)... With proper edge alignment and good stropping, you should be able to put a shaving edge on anything past about 220grit.
 
Hi All,

I think, today. I've found quite possibly THE EASIEST WAY to resharpen a Khuk or other large knifes for that matter.

Before ya get all exited...I heed to say that for me a knife is sharp if it can cut trough a 10 -folded T-shirt.:thumbup:
I'm not a big fan of "shaving sharp" 'cause I'm lazy:D

The method may be familiar to some of you.
It involves a drilling machine and a wheel...and couple of passes with the blade on the wheel;)
I don't know what material the wheel is made of! It isn't a carbon one by the looks of it. Here's a picture:

wheel.jpg


You can secure the drilling machine on to your vice or use one of the cheap attachments as on the picture.

drilwheel.jpg


If anyone knows of this wheels, please enlighten us.:confused:
The wheel is not hard (but not soft either). You could squeeze it if you try hard enough. AND It only costs a couple of bucks.

I have been pulling my hair for a easy way to resharpen the curved khuk and I think (so far) this is the easiest and best way.
It literally takes me a couple of passes either side without too much pressure and it's done. (On a properly sharpened blade beforehand of course!)

May be I should have posted this in a new tread:confused:
 
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Thanks for the info Dan. I don't know what the wheel is either, but I'm interested in finding out. From your description it has enough substance to provide abrasion for sharpening, but also gives so that it may possibly maintain the convex edge of the blade. Now I'm like you, waiting for the more knowledgeable to let us know.
Thanks again Dan.
 
i have a similar wheel but i dont use it for sharpening since it wears down quite fast. its made by 3m and are quite expensive. i save mine for cleaning up a finish in hard to reach places. it does work up a good burr though. i like my belt sander and paper wheels for convex edges.
 
Ok. I'm by no means a pro when it comes to sharpening...but I get by, If you know what I mean.
Usually the khuks are sharp enough and with a convex edge ( or near it) already.
I've played around with my DChirra, got it shaving sharp, paper sharp etc.etc.
The problem I have is the more I polished the blade the less it would cut!
Personally for choping, bush clearing and general camp work you don't need a razor
shaving smooth blade. On the contrary you need it to be somewhat cerated as to be
able to cut/saw the wood fibres. You could keep the tip and the curved part near the
handle shaving smooth but I don't bother. Got another knife for that.
I'm no expert on edges, so smooth V cerated or which one will cut more flesh in self def. and do more damage? if anyone knows let us too.

The wheel I bought is really cheap. It was in a set of other ones with buffer, rouge and steelwool etc.etc. for +/-10$. One of those starter kits... It's sure made in china.
Yes, it will probably not last VERY long but I'm sure I can get a 100 times with it.

What I do is this: roll an old cotton Tshirt (not really tight)so it becomes like a human arm size and then slice through it.
Somehow my shaving sharp blade (and it shaves real good) just wont cut it enough.
Did a pass with the wheel and I can feel it on my thumb that the blade is more "cutty".
On the Tshirt again...slices through it like butter. The tiny cerations help the cut a lot.
I may get to magnify the edge and post a pic, before and after.
Again if anyone is more technical...let us know!
 
DanSmithy said:
I'm no expert on edges, so smooth V cerated or which one will cut more flesh in self def. and do more damage? if anyone knows let us too.
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I'm not exactly an expert either, but I know enough about edges to say that a polished one push cuts better whereas a coarser one slices better. If one were to use a kukri in a martial context, a slicing action is going to be more effective than a chopping one - not only to keep momentum, but because a sheering effect is much more effective for cutting through material (more in reference to heavy clothing than flesh). A coarser finish would also be preferable to lend itself to the sheering effect... probably 220grit or so.

If you've ever been nicked with a blade polished up to ~2000grit, you'll notice that the pain is hardly noticeable, the cut takes a second to start bleeding, and it tends to be fairly easy to close up and heals quite quickly. And if you've ever gotten nicked with a serrated or coarsely sharpened knife, you'd know that it tends to hurt quite a bit more, bleeds almost instantly, takes a bit more effort to get the bleeding to stop, takes longer to heal and leaves a more noticeable scar. This is because a very well polished edge has less drag as it cuts through material and leaves behind a very fine cut.

As I said before, I prefer about a 400-600grit finish on most of my knives. While it won't allow you to whittle freestanding hair, it's enough to shave and won't compromise slicing capabilities.

Oh - and before anyone jumps to conclusions, this knowledge wasn't happened upon through knife fighting or other questionable activities. Just from years of knife usage and balisong flipping :p
 
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May I inject something here to all of you using sandpaper? I would qualify this as not meaning those who are using belt sanders though. Though I do want to say those should really be used sparingly since they can really remove a lot of metal drastically shortening the life of your knife.

I have noticed that this seems to be something that a lot of folks are turning to these days and it sort of baffles me. While sandpaper isn't a hugely expensive bit of kit, it is easier to wear out than a stone. Both do the same thing and both come in a variety of "grits" so you can buy yourself a set of quality stones that will likely last you a lifetime verses pack after pack of sandpaper. Also, if you can use sandpaper, you most certainly know how to use a stone as well.

For instance I have noted this little kit that Killa (am I right, is it you?) totes with him in the field consisting of strips of sandpaper and a bit of leather (?) (and whatever else is in there :)). I carry a small triple stone if I am going to be out for a while or if it is a short trip, I have a two sided stone, fine and medium, that I use. Both of these are over twenty years old. At this point, AFAIC, they are free. I have gotten my money back a long time ago and now am well into the dividends. At home, I have a nice set of wet/dry stones that my Uncle gave me right after he taught me how to sharpen a knife, it has a big wooden box for all the stones and there must be ten different grits for the large ones plus this is where the triple and double sider comes from that I carry with me in the field. I do have a strop, a belt sander and a set of grinding wheels on my grinder plus a leather wheel and leather belt for power stropping but that is all specialty stuff and really, I don't use if often except on my carry self defense Black Bear Classic and a few of my daggers. I would like to experiment with the whole paper wheel thing but money is tight so that will wait until someone I know near me has the stuff I can use and see if I like it enough to spring for it.

What this all boils down to is money. Why spend a bunch of money on sandpaper on a regular basis when a one time purchase of quality stones will sharpen your blades for decades? All you need to do to keep the stones working like new for a long time is to use them evenly and clean out the pores to remove the metal shavings and detritus now and then with soap and water. If you are worried about being able to get into the curves and such, don't! They also make pucks, of which I have a couple. I like the Lansky ones best, they are two sided and come in a variety of grit combination. These are also thick and have a little ring on them to make them easier to hang onto and Lansky and Gatco both make a variety of other shaped stones as well. Diamond "stones" are also fabulous. I have a small tooth pick looking one that I use to sharpen up serrated blades and it is easy and fast to make them razor sharp with it.

Anyway, I just thought I would say all of this since it just doesn't make sense to me to use something that wears out so fast all the time. No doubt about it, I have sandpaper in the house too and use it up all the time. I also use a number of those washable sponges and plastic fiber "steel" wool sanders too sine they are reusable. I tend to go for the most bang for my buck because if I don't, I'd never be able to afford to collect the knives to sharpen.
 
To answer your question warty, it's because choppers tend to benefit from a convex edge and that's not easily attained or maintained with a stone which have no give. I still agree that stones are great and that everyone who wants to get into sharpening should learn with them. Once you get the technique down, most other methods are easy to pick up... heck, I managed to win a bet with a friend by sharpening up his dull knife to a shaving edge using only the things in the parking lot we were in (I used a cement block and cardboard - not a very pleasant shave, but definitely enough to pop hairs and win me $10)

That said, I get plenty of use out of my stones (an Arkansas coarse/fine, and a 600grit as well as a 1200grit waterstone). V-edges excel at slicing and cutting, so most of my knives (pocket knives, small fixed blades, balisongs, kitchen knives, etc - pretty much anything that isn't going to suffer heavy impacts) end up getting sharpened with these stones. However, when it comes to anything that I plan to baton or chop with (pretty much all my HI items), I find that a convex edge is the way to go as it splits through wood better and is less prone to deformation. My point was never that sandpaper was the cheapest way of putting an edge on a knife, it was that it's the cheapest way of putting a convex edge on a knife. It also makes sharpening the recurve a breeze and the worn-out sandpaper can be reused for polishing things (I often take stains off my kukris with worn-out 1000grit paper)

As for my kit, it actually includes a ~600grit Buck washita stone. To that is attached a piece of mousepad, several strips of sandpaper and a leather strop. The kit includes everything I need to keep both my convex and V-grind knives in tip top shape while on outings :)
 
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Andrew Colglazier said:
I never use stones to sharpen simply because I lack the patience for it. Otherwise, power to y'all!

Andy
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:D Same here...if I can help it.

@ Killa:
Next time try to use the top edge of your cars drivers window wound down half way to sharpen a knife.
It works;) and it may bring another tenner:D

I carry only an diamond sharpener for my field goings, it's light and small and helps me keep usable edge without too much fuss.
Now I'll need to do a kit like yours cause Ms Khuksi is traveling with me all the time and the diamond sharpener can't mantain the convex shaped edge easilly.
Why don't they make diamond strops...:rolleyes:
 
Here's a tip for those that want convex edges without buying power equipment or spending $30 in sandpaper to put the edge on the first time:

Look at the old-timers. Why were they so good at putting on a convex edge (with a stone)?
Why did they always claim they couldn't get a good edge with a new stone, but their old one worked wonders?

Hint: it has nothing (ok, almost nothing) to do with their skill, or the makeup of the stone.

Look at the old stone -- it's worn, and has a pronounced CURVE in it. It's next to impossible to male a flat edge with one, you have no choice but to put on a convex edge.

So you've got a couple of choices:
1.) go to a flea market or yard sale and buy some guy's old stone.
2.) Spend a little to get a good bench stone (I like Norton's 8 x 2 Fine/Coarse India stone), and a grinding wheel, very low grit (coarse, not fine). Either using your own bench grinder or one a t work or a buddy's (tell him what you're doing and that you're bringing your own wheel). Then S*L*O*W*L*Y grind a slight curve into the FINE side of the stone (I never messed with the coarse side). It's best if the grinder has a water drip, but keep the grinding wheel and stone wet, and go slowly (or the stone, wheel, or both, will come apart on you).

Now you have something you can throw up on a TV table and convex every knife in the house while you watch Jeremiah Johnson.

In the field, just carry a DMT Diafold, and use it like a file -- hold the blade still, and freehand with the Diafold, following the curve that is already there. Of course, you can strop it afterward.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
In the field, just carry a DMT Diafold, and use it like a file -- hold the blade still, and freehand with the Diafold, following the curve that is already there. Of course, you can strop it afterward.
Click to expand...

You don't happen to have a picture of that one? DMT?:confused:
 
killa_concept said:
As for my kit, it actually includes a ~600grit Buck washita stone. To that is attached a piece of mousepad, several strips of sandpaper and a leather strop. The kit includes everything I need to keep both my convex and V-grind knives in tip top shape while on outings :)
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Groovy! That sounds pretty comprehensive then. :thumbup:

As for those saying they lack the patience for stones... :confused:
does this men you think a stone cannot produce the edge as quickly as a piece of sandpaper with similar grit?
If this is your assertion, then I believe your stones are plugged up and need a good cleaning.
No doubt about it, once the pores get plugged, what you have is even less effective than using a brick.

I was going to mention being able to convex with stones and how but it seems the Corporal has beaten me to it. :)
I don't feel like an "Old Timer" however except on those days when my back really hurts. ;)

As for diamond strops, they do make diamond rubbing compound that you can use on your strop...
 
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