Sharpening is such a ..

Tony8179 said:
There was some really good advice given before this post. Terrible advice. The OP doesn't want the knife "sharp enough". He wants a good convex edge. And flicking your blade across a stone a few times is no way to take care of your knife.
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A lot of people try and make out as though sharpening is some esoteric art when, in reality, it's really very simple for anyone with a fair amount of dexterity and only limited practice. The OP doesn't need to overthink it or to be informed of more complex methods or to listen to more experienced (or not, as a few posts show) sharpeners bicker amongst themselves. He needs to practice. Seems to me that was Hawkings point.


Regarding your last sentence, I call that maintenance.


ETA: To make sure you don't misunderstand what I'm saying, perceived tone, etc., I think your advice in the first reply was spot on.
 
So I'm gonna try the sandpaper mousepad method again today with a black marker along the edge.
I read someplace that convex edges aren't supposed to be crazy sharp because that would make the edge thinner and it would roll/chip. Is there any truth to this?
Also should the edge angle be acute or obtuse? I think I was sharpening it at around 25 deg and it looks like a micro V that I have created. Is that the idea or have I done something completely different.
 
So now I'm going to show my true ignorance- When you all talk about convex blades, is that by choice, or the original blade shape that you're trying to maintain? Thanks!
 
Balidaan said:
So I'm gonna try the sandpaper mousepad method again today with a black marker along the edge.
I read someplace that convex edges aren't supposed to be crazy sharp because that would make the edge thinner and it would roll/chip. Is there any truth to this?
Also should the edge angle be acute or obtuse? I think I was sharpening it at around 25 deg and it looks like a micro V that I have created. Is that the idea or have I done something completely different.
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Any edge can be as sharp as you want it.

Hold around 15 degrees per side and adjust your pressure until you create a even scratch pattern all the way to the edge. Try for a bevel height of about 3/8in and remember you will need to change the amount of pressure applied when you get to the curve of the blade. If you keep the same pressure on the smaller area it will further wrap the abrasive around the edge dulling the tip section. Work slow and feel it out, if using fresh sandpaper use each piece until it feels to have lost 50% of its abrasive action.
 
As a user of paper wheels you should easily realize there is no give to compressed glued paper, there hard as a rock.

Sharpening a convex blade requires you to form a seamless gring from body of blade to edge apex. Traditionally its done with a slightly rounded water stone and special techniques that take years to master. The invention of sandpaper has allowed us to use a soft backing on a flexible abrasive to create the rolling convex shape with less required learning than traditional methods. Sure you can use the wheels to sharpen the blade to a V grind but then you would be incorrectly sharpening the grind style.
 
I just joined today. Been reading here for years. There are many solid thinkers and many with good input on this thread.

I have owned an S1 for the past six years. The convex edge is one of the reasons I bought an EdgePro. I had difficulty repeatedly using the same exact stroke (kind of like my golf swing). As a result I would often scratch the knife where I wanted it to look clear and clean. Besides, when you receive your Falkniven from the factory you'll notice that an actual stoned edge is put on the knife. My U2 did as well. Granted, it is of higher angle and shows to only be roughly 1/16th of an inch. Nonetheless it doesn't come convex right to the cutting edge.

The reason I went to the EdgePro is that I didn't want that high of an angle. So, I lowered the angle and thinned the steel a little further up the blade. My gosh, this thing is thick right down to the final 3/16" of the blade. You'll never cut a piece of cheese with this knife, but then again, it could probably take down Sherwood's forest.

As for our poster's concerns, what I did was to progressively clean up the knife. You can do that with 600 through 1200 grit wet paper using the original sanding marks (satin) as your guide. Use a rubber sanding block. You'll have to work down to those deep diamond scratches. You can restore it's original look (or you could use a 1x30 sanding belt and bring it up as high as you like). Take your time, it will take awhile.

From there the EdgePro delivered a beautiful razor sharp edge. Was it convex right down to the edge? No. Last year I bought paper wheels and that has taken my sharpening to a new level. Problem is, not too many outlets out there where you're gutting a deer.

As for the sarcastic comments about diamonds, he is actually quite right. For the most part Diamonds are too aggressive and take too much metal. Most experts agree with this premise. Just because they take a lot of metal doesn't mean they attain the proper cutting angle. Most prefer Water Stones (like the EdgePro). Cutting faster does not equate to precision. Besides, they're double the cost. My knives are very sharp so I rarely use anything less (or more) than the 600 grit stone. Our kitchen knives require more servicing than my knives do.

To me you really need a couple precision systems. As for the guys with a mousepad and paper. I've not one doubt you can put a razor edge on your knives. Unfortunately, I couldn't. I might be able to now, surely I'm more patient. Still, I prefer my current methods.

Lastly, once your knives finally have a superb angle and finish it takes little to keep them that way. I particularly like The EdgePro Ceramic Rod.

One thing I know I don't like is a polished edge. It may be pretty but there's lots of stuff it just can't cut! Like...rope or a tomato. Hardly survival like...huh?

Good luck...you'll love that knife. Now go find a nice 1/8th thick, wide bellied straight grind, with the choil exposing the cutting edge (so you can actually cut with the belly) made of S30V with a 15 degree final angle and have some real fun with a knife. That's what I finally did. When I want an Ax, I bring one. When I'm up in Quetico the S1 is always with me. The rest of the time I need a fine instrument more like a scalple.

Food for thought: http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/
 
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The first thing I want to say is: there are many, many different ways to sharpen a knife, and they all work. We as individuals are all shaped differently, we think differently, we have different body mechanics, differing levels of intelligence, intuition, dexterity, experience, etc. What this means is that what works great for one of us may not work for all of us. It also means that for one person it may be easier to use a method that is more difficult for others. This doesn't make either method right or wrong, nor better or worse.

Paper wheels are probably amongst the easiest method to sharpen a knife for a lot of folks, and they can be used to sharpen and convex an edge with proper skill and experience (multiple passes must be used of course), but on the local level, the edge will actually be a series of concave scallops. Think about it. Does this matter in any legitimate way? The only person who can judge that is the user who is doing the sharpening, and it may only matter in a menial way in their mind. Without empirical testing, who's to know?

The same thing can be said about convexing an edge on a flat stone, excepting that at the local level, the convex edge will be comprised of a series of small flat bevels.

The very best ways to convex an edge for me would be using either a belt sander with a slack belt or cushioned support, or emery cloth/sandpaper and a cushioned support under it on the bench by hand (popularly known as the mousepad method). Also, no matter what method you use, it is almost always best to start out with a coarser grit than most people think they would need when sharpening a knife for the first time unless using a power tool to sharpen (such as a belt sander or paper wheels) especially if you are sharpening a new knife for the first time or reprofiling. If you only plan on matching the existing angle and the knife is not too dull, that is the time to use the Sharpie method and the finer grits.

What will work best for the original poster is simply a matter of trial and error on his part, no matter what any of us may say about it. In conclusion, let's all try to keep that in mind when we make and/or read a comment (especially when making a suggestion; keep in mind that what may work for you may not work well or as well for someone else because of the reasons outlined in the first paragraph). We are all here because we like knives, especially sharp knives, so we oughtn't really be at each other's throats so often, when really we all have the same goals in mind.
 
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Hawkings said:
Oh for crying out loud, it's a piece of steel.
flick it across a stone a couple of times and it 's sharp enough for what ever you would want to do with a F1.
It's not rocket science.

Don't scare the guy by over complicating things.
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Thank you from the non perfect polished edge, perfect angle, sharpmaker, paper wheel, stropping folks likeme out here. Just get it sharp enough to use it. Done. (Well, unless you just MUST push cut tp...... geez)
 
eKretz said:
The first thing I want to say is: there are many, many different ways to sharpen a knife, and they all work. We as individuals are all shaped differently, we think differently, we have different body mechanics, differing levels of intelligence, intuition, dexterity, experience, etc. What this means is that what works great for one of us may not work for all of us. It also means that for one person it may be easier to use a method that is more difficult for others. This doesn't make either method right or wrong, nor better or worse.

...In conclusion, let's all try to keep that in mind when we make and/or read a comment (especially when making a suggestion; keep in mind that what may work for you may not work well or as well for someone else because of the reasons outlined in the first paragraph). We are all here because we like knives, especially sharp knives, so we oughtn't really be at each other's throats so often, when really we all have the same goals in mind.
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Excellent post!

Thank you for your diplomatic efforts.

Doug
 
eccvets said:
the give of a paper wheel does give it a slight convex edge in reality.
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That's usually because you're sharpening at a different angle with each stroke. I did that to my ZT 0301 and while it looks like a convex edge, a good light will reveal the truth. Then I took the edge to my Work Sharp and put a true convex edge to it.

Also, I noticed that the slotted wheel will almost always put a microbevel on the edge. Not a bad thing in and of itself, but it just goes to show that the wheels put perfectly flat angles on the edge, and it also means they're utterly unforgiving.

But in the end, whatever method you use, if the edge gives you a deep cut from touching it accidentally, it's sharp enough:thumbup:.
 
Emerald said:
One thing I know I don't like is a polished edge. It may be pretty but there's lots of stuff it just can't cut! Like...rope or a tomato. Hardly survival like...huh?
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I was completely on board with everything you were saying in your post until this statement. This is false. A properly polished edge will cut through anything a non polished edge will cut through. In my experience, a polished edge will usually cut smoother and easier than a non polished edge through all types of different materials. As I said, this is in my experience.
 
Tony8179 said:
I was completely on board with everything you were saying in your post until this statement. This is false. A properly polished edge will cut through anything a non polished edge will cut through. In my experience, a polished edge will usually cut smoother and easier than a non polished edge through all types of different materials. As I said, this is in my experience.
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True. I've dropped more than one tomato on my polished edges and had them split clean in half.

But I did run into one thing that couldn't be cut with my edge:
Hard plastics.

More specifically those zip ties. For those I prefer to use the wood saw on my Swiss Tool(scissors seem a bit dull).
 
Noctis3880 said:
True. I've dropped more than one tomato on my polished edges and had them split clean in half.

But I did run into one thing that couldn't be cut with my edge:
Hard plastics.

More specifically those zip ties. For those I prefer to use the wood saw on my Swiss Tool(scissors seem a bit dull).
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Your absolute best bet for zip ties is a pair of diagonal cutters (dikes). If you have a multi tool you can grasp the zip tie with the pliers at the connection point and give it a sharp twist. Most zip ties will break quite easily with that sharp twist.
 
Tony8179 said:
I was completely on board with everything you were saying in your post until this statement. This is false. A properly polished edge will cut through anything a non polished edge will cut through. In my experience, a polished edge will usually cut smoother and easier than a non polished edge through all types of different materials. As I said, this is in my experience.
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Actually it wasn't false Tony...I said "I" don't like working with polished edges. I'm well aware of how valued highly polished edges are to most. I did present it incorrectly though and thanks for pointing that out.

I was actually relating how my S1 Forest performs with a polished edge. I'm serious, the blade is so thick that it will mash a tomato before it slices it. As Ben (EdgePro) says in his videos (cutting efficiency has more to do with blade geometry than with how polished the edge is). So, a Santoku (1.9mm) that's somewhat dull will cut through a tomato far better than an S1 (5mm) that is razor sharp. Now given the same instrument; Santuko, one dull verses one polished, I'm in todal agreement with you.

In Ben's videos he talks about how certain knives do better (or worse) with certain finishes. For example, my S1 would skin a deer and slice meat from the bone far better polished than not. But I believe a fillet knife needs the micro-serrations to cut through a Walleyes back. I think you get what I was driving at. I also agree that you are indeed right given the correct tool for the job.

So for a survival knife "I" would prefer a finish with more micro serrations. They just saw better that way. For a pocket knife like the Sebenza or my U2 (Laminated SGPS HRC62) I prefer a polished finish.

Does that make better sense? Again, I was only voicing my personal preferences. I did not mean to offend.
 
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Emerald said:
Actually it wasn't false Tony...I said "I" don't like working with polished edges. I'm well aware of how valued highly polished edges are to most. I did present it incorrectly though and thanks for pointing that out.

I was actually relating how my S1 Forest performs with a polished edge. I'm serious, the blade is so thick that it will mash a tomato before it slices it. As Ben (EdgePro) says in his videos (cutting efficiency has more to do with blade geometry than with how polished the edge is). So, a Santoku (1.9mm) that's somewhat dull will cut through a tomato far better than an S1 (5mm) that is razor sharp. Now given the same instrument; Santuko, one dull verses one polished, I'm in todal agreement with you.

In Ben's videos he talks about how certain knives do better (or worse) with certain finishes. For example, my S1 would skin a deer and slice meat from the bone far better polished than not. But I believe a fillet knife needs the micro-serrations to cut through a Walleyes back. I think you get what I was driving at. I also agree that you are indeed right given the correct tool for the job.

So for a survival knife "I" would prefer a finish with more micro serrations. They just saw better that way. For a pocket knife like the Sebenza or my U2 (Laminated SGPS HRC62) I prefer a polished finish.

Does that make better sense? Again, I was only voicing my personal preferences. I did not mean to offend.
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No offense at all. I understand much better what you were driving at. The proper edge for every job. :thumbup:
 
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