Sharpening stones. What do y'all like?

Belt grinder...lol

I liked the DMT diamond plates, but lately a 400 grit belt, an 800 grit belt and a leather belt with white compound have been treating me better than any stone or jig has in the past 20 years.
 
I've always told anyone serious about sharpening that the best combo you can have is a big DMT extra coarse diamond plate, a big spyderco medium ceramic stone, and a strop with some flitz. I made a stand to hold the stones at 15 degrees (or whatever angle you like). It's a lot easier to angle your stone and hold a knife flat than it is to hold a knife at an angle.

It's important to get a really coarse diamond plate. There's nothing more frustrating than trying to reset an edge with stones that aren't aggressive enough. It's also easier to establish a uniform edge if you have a really aggressive plate because you make fewer passes and don't have to use as much pressure.
If you've got the money it'd be nice to add a medium or fine DMT diamond and fine or super fine Spyderco ceramic.

But...the easiest is a belt grinder or sander :)
 
my set up is DMT dia-sharp plates, course>>fine>>>extra fine>>>spyderco ultra fine bench stone>>>leather strop with DMT 1m paste, i get mirrored edges that are down right wicked, yes they do end up with a slight convex b/c i dont use guides but i've gotten pretty good at what i do in the last 3 or so years working with stones.
 
Those stones are great, you won't regret it. :D Personally, I like Japanese water stones, supplemented by DMT diamonds when needed, but lots of people get fantastic results with the Norton stones, both India and Crystalon.
 
I will start with my final statement - Stones don't make knives sharp......a knifemaker's skilled hands make a knife sharp.
Learn how to sharpen before dropping all sorts of money on stones. A $5 combo stone from Home Depot will sharpen a knife just as sharp as a Japanese Togishi if it is used right. Good stones make it easier, but they do not contain talent.
Also, a very polished edge isn't always what you want. A coarser edge at 220 to 400 grit will cut some things far better. It does help to knock the wire off on a strop.




I have way too many stones, but when someone asks, I suggest an extra coarse/coarse and fine/extra fine 3X10 DMT Duo-Sharp system ( comes with base and two plates) and a fine/extra fine Norton crystalon combo stone. From there you go to a mounted leather strop with flitz or rouge. Total cost is less than $300. Your grandchildren will still be using it 50 years from now if taken care of.
http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-10-DuoSharp-Diamond-Kit-P435C24.aspx
http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Combination-Water-Stones-P28C4.aspx

Now, if you want to get crazy, get a full set of the Duo-sharp DMT plates in 3X10. They fit the DMT base, which also will hold most mounted water stones. Then add Norton stones up to about 3000, get some King stones in the 2000-8000 range, and natural stones to 14,000. Don't forget to get a few different nagura stones for making paste. ....and a few boxes of ha-zuya and ji-zuya chips. You will also need a flattening stone and if you really want to have it all, get the largest DMT Extra Extra Coarse plate. You will have to make some sort of outside sharpening bench ( togi-dai) to do all this wet sharpening.... cypress is the best wood for that. And unless your knees are much younger than mine, make one you sit at.
When you are done spending a few thousand or much more on these stones and plates, most likely you still won't know how to use them .....and most old timers with a hollowed out 3" long pocket stone can sharpen a knife better than an amateur with $2000 in waterstones.
Japanese waterstones are used to shape the blade and edge at the same time. They are not just an edge tool. The process is just one way of shaping a blade and ending with a sharp edge. Do not let the myth and mystique make you buy stuff you don't need. I do not recommend waterstones for anyone who isn't doing Japanese blades.

My personal sharpening system for 95% of the knives I sharpen is this:
220 grit Norton blue belt at slow speed, and a one smooth pass on each side.
400 grit new SC belt running slow and a few passes each side.
10" buff running at 1100RPM charged with white rouge - one quick pass per side.(WARNING - Use a strop if you are not proficient at buffing edges!!!!!)
DONE
I usually use a "tight" slack belt, but on some blades, use the flat platen.



I am going back to the last part in my opening statement - You can sharpen a knife until it is dull. Yes, that is what I said. A knife that was slice to the bone sharp after a few strokes on a medium and fine stone can be taken up the grits, worked on super fine stones, and stropped for ten minutes, .....and may have gotten so it won't slice paper. Sharpening is a process of getting the edge thin and quitting when it is there.
 
Stacy, that was a great post, I really enjoyed reading it.

My system is very similar to your "recommended" one using simple diamond/water bench stones.
I have a course, fine, and extra fine 8" DMT.
Along with a dual-sided combination 4000/8000 Grit Norton Water stone.
Finished with a strop loaded with Flitz.

It gives razor sharp edges, if, as Stacy said, if you know how to use them.
 
Norton IB8 in the stone I use the most. I've tried some natural stones over the years, but seem to always go back to the Norton. I recently picked up a Spyderco Ceramic (fine) to refine the edge if I choose to do so. These two stones seem to be a nice combination for me.

ric
 
bladsmth said:
I will start with my final statement - Stones don't make knives sharp......a knifemaker's skilled hands make a knife sharp.
Learn how to sharpen before dropping all sorts of money on stones. A $5 combo stone from Home Depot will sharpen a knife just as sharp as a Japanese Togishi if it is used right. Good stones make it easier, but they do not contain talent.
Also, a very polished edge isn't always what you want. A coarser edge at 220 to 400 grit will cut some things far better. It does help to knock the wire off on a strop.




I have way too many stones, but when someone asks, I suggest an extra coarse/coarse and fine/extra fine 3X10 DMT Duo-Sharp system ( comes with base and two plates) and a fine/extra fine Norton crystalon combo stone. From there you go to a mounted leather strop with flitz or rouge. Total cost is less than $300. Your grandchildren will still be using it 50 years from now if taken care of.
http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-10-DuoSharp-Diamond-Kit-P435C24.aspx
http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Combination-Water-Stones-P28C4.aspx

Now, if you want to get crazy, get a full set of the Duo-sharp DMT plates in 3X10. They fit the DMT base, which also will hold most mounted water stones. Then add Norton stones up to about 3000, get some King stones in the 2000-8000 range, and natural stones to 14,000. Don't forget to get a few different nagura stones for making paste. ....and a few boxes of ha-zuya and ji-zuya chips. You will also need a flattening stone and if you really want to have it all, get the largest DMT Extra Extra Coarse plate. You will have to make some sort of outside sharpening bench ( togi-dai) to do all this wet sharpening.... cypress is the best wood for that. And unless your knees are much younger than mine, make one you sit at.
When you are done spending a few thousand or much more on these stones and plates, most likely you still won't know how to use them .....and most old timers with a hollowed out 3" long pocket stone can sharpen a knife better than an amateur with $2000 in waterstones.
Japanese waterstones are used to shape the blade and edge at the same time. They are not just an edge tool. The process is just one way of shaping a blade and ending with a sharp edge. Do not let the myth and mystique make you buy stuff you don't need. I do not recommend waterstones for anyone who isn't doing Japanese blades.

My personal sharpening system for 95% of the knives I sharpen is this:
220 grit Norton blue belt at slow speed, and a one smooth pass on each side.
400 grit new SC belt running slow and a few passes each side.
10" buff running at 1100RPM charged with white rouge - one quick pass per side.(WARNING - Use a strop if you are not proficient at buffing edges!!!!!)
DONE
I usually use a "tight" slack belt, but on some blades, use the flat platen.



I am going back to the last part in my opening statement - You can sharpen a knife until it is dull. Yes, that is what I said. A knife that was slice to the bone sharp after a few strokes on a medium and fine stone can be taken up the grits, worked on super fine stones, and stropped for ten minutes, .....and may have gotten so it won't slice paper. Sharpening is a process of getting the edge thin and quitting when it is there.
Click to expand...

Hi Stacy,

Hope you're well and rested up after the surgery, and I wish you a speedy and uneventful recovery! :D :D :D You're someone I respect a lot who has taught many members here (myself included) a lot about metallurgy, knife making, and sharpening, so I hope you don't mind me pointing the (I think intentional) exaggerations in your post so newbie sharpeners know the difference. I agree with your principle. The stones are just tools, and you can get a good, shaving sharp edge from a $5 stone from the hardware store. Actually, you don't even have to spend $5. You can do it with a cinder block, red masonry brick, some cardboard stock, and the back of an old leather belt. If you see my signature, the first one says basically what you've said in your post "You are the best sharpener. Without the skill the tools mean nothing. Now you must pick the sharpening tools that will aid you in making a blade sharp." So with that said...

1. "A $5 combo stone from Home Depot will sharpen a knife just as sharp as a Japanese Togishi."

Yes, but... you have to be pretty good with that $5 to get a very sharp edge, which won't last nearly as long. Refining isn't about sharpness--and it's good that you point that out in the next sentence--but a more refined edge can still be sharper. But it's good that you also point out that a coarser edge is sometimes preferable. But I think it's not fair to downplay the mastery of a Togishi's skill and imply to new sharpeners that a job with a $5 is essentially as good as that of a trained Togishi. That's comparing apples with oranges.

2. "I suggest an extra coarse/coarse and fine/extra fine 3X10 DMT Duo-Sharp system ( comes with base and two plates) and a fine/extra fine Norton crystalon combo stone. From there you go to a mounted leather strop with flitz or rouge. Total cost is less than $300. Your grandchildren will still be using it 50 years from now if taken care of."

DMT stones do last for many years... but not for generations. With heavy daily use (in a sharpening shop, for example), they'll still need replacement in 5 - 10 years (maybe closer to 10), and the sharpening characteristics will change over time, although they will still cut. But if you use a DMT stone hard (even with meticulous care and maintenance, never dislodging a single diamond through abuse), your grandchildren will still not be inheriting it.

3. "I do not recommend waterstones for anyone who isn't doing Japanese blades."

Water stones work great on a variety of blade steels and geometries. I have found that they are fantastic for all but the hardest wearing modern steels. I don't think they are only for Japanese blades. They work great on everything from 420HC on up and geometries as thick as carpenter's chisels and wood splitting axes. I find myself appreciating fine Japanese water stones more and more each time I use them. I still have a Norton India combo stone that I use, and I love it, as well. But it is not as pleasurable to use as my fine water stones.
 
Last edited:
I think it really depends on how badly you want to sharpen freehand.

There is a world of difference in waterstones, and you can only get what you pay for. Some may not notice much difference. I can't imagine that.

For inexpensive stones, Kings are at the head of the line. You will need something to keep them flat, because they wear quickly. Stones that wear quickly also cut quickly. Either a DMT XXC or an Atoma 140 work great for removing a lot of metal, and lapping water stones.

Shapton Glass stones are the best water stones. They don't need to be soaked at all. Splash a little water on them, and go to town. They cut faster than any other line of stones I've seen, and wear very slowly for how fast they cut. That's why I think they are best.

For a great starter set, for minimal investment, a DMT XC and a King combination 800/4k, or 1k/6k grit water stone is really tough to beat. When you do your part correctly, a perfect 4-6k edge is very very sharp. A leather hone with 1 or 2 micron CBN will finish an edge beautifully. 1 micron will give you a more polished, pushcutting edge, while 2 micron will give you better tooth for slicing.
 
DMT Dia Sharps and water stones..We also sharpen a lot of Plane irons and Wood chisels..Most knives off the bench are sharpned on a 320 belt to start, then a 800 or 1000 grit to clean up the edge then a loaded leather belt on the grinder..Gets em' scary sharp..
 
I agree with Magnaminous_G, diamond plates are like files, once they dull they do not replenish their cutting power while with a water stone there is plenty of fresh abrasive through out the stone. My favorite water stone is the 1000 grit Shapton pro stone. Cuts aggressively, wears well and has plenty of feedback.
 
I pretty much agree with Mag-G.
However, remember that the OP was questioning from the unskilled amateur's POV, and those of us who have learned to use waterstones need to look at it from their angle. Yes, we might be able to make them sing and dance, but the new knifemaker should not expect ( and won't get) those results.


Concerning the DMT plates-
Good diamond plates are not just a thin plating of diamond. They have a built up layer of diamond crystals that will consistently expose new sharp points. Used right, they last a daily use knife shop many years, used occasionally, as most hobbyist will, they last a lifetime. Use wrong, they are toast soon. Lots of water and dish soap for lubricant, firm ( fairly hard) pressure. Smooth and long strokes.......that is how to peel steel off a blade with a diamond plate.
With stones, it is almost the opposite. Lubricate well, but not too much, use even but not hard pressure, let the stone do the cutting.
 
On brand new knives I use first an A65 Trizact 307AE structured abrasive 1" tight slackbelt,
followed by
an A45 Trizact 307AE structured abrasive 1" tight slackbelt.
Then follow by either a 30 or 15 micron tight slack belt depending on what cut I want.
For touch-ups I use my DMT fine stone followed by a fine India stone.
When I'm in the field/away from home I use the top edge of my truck window. ;)
 
I know there are artists out there when it comes to sharpening and polishing knives but, for the novice or layman, I highly recommend the Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker. Fairly economical and excellent results but, depending on your edge profile, patience may be a virtue.
 
I use all 5 grits of DMT and sometimes a strop. I have used arkansas stones, waterstones etc. but the DMT is dollar for dollar the best bang over the long haul

-Page
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top