Sharpening stones

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rc3mil

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I am a complete novice when it comes to sharpening. I have a spyderco sharpmaker but i would like to sell it and learn to freehand. How hard is it to get a really good edge on a blade using stones? I also need some advice on which stones to get. Japanese water stones? Norton? Oil stones? Dry :confused:

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Also if you list some could you please list a good place to buy them?

Are good stones expensive?

Remember, i dont know how to do it so stones for beginners (if they sell those) would be nice. I would still like to get a really sharp edge on my blades though as this will be my primary sharpening system.

Can you get a sharper edge with good stones or an edge pro?

Thanks to everyone who "enlightens" me ;)
 
Richard J's paper wheel system works great. However, it is not the most portable system, whereas if you learn to sharpen freehand on stones, you can use just about anything hard and abrasive to keep your blades serviceable. The trick is to make sure you are getting to the edge, and not rounding it over.

My advice, buy a cheaper knife that you won't care about too much, and use it to practice. Marke the edge with a sharpie marker and then run the blade on the stone a couple times. This will tell you if you are reaching the edge. Practice holding the same angle for every stroke. Work from courser grits to finer. Many don't like the idea of forming a burr, but I find it very useful in knowing when to change grits. Learn to feel for it. After working one side of the edge for a while, slide your thumb off of the opposite edge, and feel for the "catch" of the burr. Once you feel it, you will "get" what I am describing. Once the burr runs the length of the edge, work the opposite side until the same happens, then change grits. To remove the burr, I prefer to strop on leather with green chromium oxide paste after I'm done with the highest grit. This polishes off the burr, and is how I achieve "scary-sharpness". You might also look up the "Sandpaper-on-a-mousepad" system, which I find works really well, too, and gives you great looking convex edges.

Whatever you choose, practice, practice, practice. When you think you have it, practice some more.

Also, you will get LOTS of advice here. Pick what makes sense to you. The reason people post sharpening advice in this forum is because they found something that works for them. It all has merit. However, if you can learn to sharpen without some sort of non-portable rig, you should be able to have a small kit that goes with you and maintains your edges everywhere.

Have fun, and welcome to the sickness!
 
Learning to freehand sharpen is not rocket science, but it does take practice. And getting a couple of good sharpening stones shouldn't break the bank either. I should think that you would need to spend about $100-$150 to get nice quality stones that will last you a lifetime.

If I were just starting out, I'd probably go for the man-made stones. Norton, Shapton, etc. and get them in three different grits; 120, 400, 1000. Alternately I'd go for good quality diamond stones from DMT. The difference will be the cost versus how fast the stones cut. The 'exact' grit size isn't that important. You would do just as well using 200, 600, 1200. All stone work can be finished up with good stropping using a fine stropping compound such as Chromium Oxide or Diamond.

The key to good free-hand sharpening is keeping a consistent angle between the blade and the stone. THAT is the hardest part of free-hand sharpening, and that takes practice. Do NOT think that the more pressure you apply will give you a faster cut. It won't. Use light pressure, just a bit more than the weight of the blade, and keep you angles consistent. Take your time. Hurrying has ruined a lot of good projects.

Buy a cheap fixed blade knife. Under $10. The steel will be softer and you'll be able to actually see your results. Cover the bevel with a black magic marker between each stroke, and then practice your stroke, checking to see that you are removing it all. That will tell you if you are being consistent and maintaining the correct angles. TAKE YOUR TIME. When I free-hand, I like to do one side at a time, working until I've raised a small burr along the entire edge. (A burr is a line of raised metal on the opposite side from that which you are sharpening. You can feel this burr by dragging your fingernail from the spine of the blade to the edge. The burr will catch your nail.) Once you have a burr all along one side, turn the knife over and do the same thing, raising a burr along the entire opposite side. (I usually do this twice. The second time though, my burr is very, very small...) Once this is done, move to the next higher grit and repeat. Raising the burr will be much faster this time, and you can get away with a much smaller burr too. Then go on to your final stone and repeat. It's a good idea to use the marker for every stone.

Once you are comfortable that you are being consistent, try sharpening a small folder. Again, use the marker on the bevel to be sure you are maintaining the correct angles. 2-3 evenings of practice like this, and you'll be sharpening like a pro in no time! It's not rocket science. It's practice.

Stitchawl
 
stitchawl said:
Learning to freehand sharpen is not rocket science, but it does take practice. And getting a couple of good sharpening stones shouldn't break the bank either. I should think that you would need to spend about $100-$150 to get nice quality stones that will last you a lifetime.

If I were just starting out, I'd probably go for the man-made stones. Norton, Shapton, etc. and get them in three different grits; 120, 400, 1000. Alternately I'd go for good quality diamond stones from DMT. The difference will be the cost versus how fast the stones cut. The 'exact' grit size isn't that important. You would do just as well using 200, 600, 1200. All stone work can be finished up with good stropping using a fine stropping compound such as Chromium Oxide or Diamond.

The key to good free-hand sharpening is keeping a consistent angle between the blade and the stone. THAT is the hardest part of free-hand sharpening, and that takes practice. Do NOT think that the more pressure you apply will give you a faster cut. It won't. Use light pressure, just a bit more than the weight of the blade, and keep you angles consistent. Take your time. Hurrying has ruined a lot of good projects.

Buy a cheap fixed blade knife. Under $10. The steel will be softer and you'll be able to actually see your results. Cover the bevel with a black magic marker between each stroke, and then practice your stroke, checking to see that you are removing it all. That will tell you if you are being consistent and maintaining the correct angles. TAKE YOUR TIME. When I free-hand, I like to do one side at a time, working until I've raised a small burr along the entire edge. (A burr is a line of raised metal on the opposite side from that which you are sharpening. You can feel this burr by dragging your fingernail from the spine of the blade to the edge. The burr will catch your nail.) Once you have a burr all along one side, turn the knife over and do the same thing, raising a burr along the entire opposite side. (I usually do this twice. The second time though, my burr is very, very small...) Once this is done, move to the next higher grit and repeat. Raising the burr will be much faster this time, and you can get away with a much smaller burr too. Then go on to your final stone and repeat. It's a good idea to use the marker for every stone.

Once you are comfortable that you are being consistent, try sharpening a small folder. Again, use the marker on the bevel to be sure you are maintaining the correct angles. 2-3 evenings of practice like this, and you'll be sharpening like a pro in no time! It's not rocket science. It's practice.

Stitchawl
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thanks for the info man and thanks to everyone else who gave me some insight on the matter. Where is a good place to buy norton stones and should i use water stones? oil? or dry? isnt there like a 2 sided stones, one side being fine, the other course?
 
Oilstones were the traditional method of sharpening in Europe and the US. Waterstones were the traditional method of sharpening in Asia. (This is NOT to say that people ONLY used these... In fact, they used both. This is just the most common way for those countries.)

Today, there is a lot of controversy about using oil. Personally, I don't use it any more, and still get good results. I only use water on my stones, even stones that were called oil stones. But... if you begin using oil on a stone, you must always use oil. You can't switch to water later without some serious cleaning to the stone first. With water there is much less mess when sharpening. Obviously, waterstones use only water.

The choice of stones is a personal preference. Each user swears that their choice is the best. And each is correct. :) What you begin with may not be what you eventually find best for you. For ease of use and for fast cutting, diamond stones are a good choice, and you can get these in double sided models from DMT over the Internet. Many knife shops carry them too. I happen to like natural waterstones, but they do need to be maintained as they tend to be soft and can dish out over time. The man-made waterstoness are harder and more uniform in grit, and last a lot longer, and probably work just as well. As I said in a previous post, Norton and Shapton stones are excellent, as are the diamond stones from DMT. You would use water on all of these.

Stitchawl
 
One last thing. If i where to go the waterstone route, how quickly would the blade ruin the stone if i had to screw up ( i probably will screw it up cause im new to freehand, but i have to learn somewhere hey ). I want to get a double sided stone. What grits should i be considering?

How sharp will i be able to get my knife with this stone?
Im thinking about getting the 220/1000 double sided stone. How fast will this stone wear out? $40 for this stone a rip off? There a better site to buy from?

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Combination-Water-Stones-P28C4.aspx
 
I agree with Kbras and Stitch . rc3 yes, thats a good place to find a Norton two grit stone in coarse and fine India . They are very economical and will out last most other stones . DM
 
Just get a fine India stone for less than $20. It will sharpen the hardest steels, it stays flat, and you can't screw it up.
Or, just tape some wet/dry sandpaper to a piece of glass.
 
If you come into any large amount of money I would go with dmt.

XC=reprofiling, chips
C=negleted blades
F=preparing for sharpening
XF+=split that hair!
Strop=tree top hair
super fine paste= expieriment with fission on atoms;).
 
rc3mil said:
One last thing. If i where to go the waterstone route, how quickly would the blade ruin the stone if i had to screw up ( i probably will screw it up cause im new to freehand, but i have to learn somewhere hey ).
Click to expand...

You're not going to ruin the stone... even if you try to! :p
After sharpening about 50 knives you might want to flatten the stone by rubbing it on a smooth cement floor (such as a car garage floor.) Very expensive natural waterstones wear out faster then the man-made stones most people use. I doubt you would wear out a Norton in the next few years.


I want to get a double sided stone. What grits should i be considering?
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Something course, about 220, and something finer, about 600-800. Getting one that is 220/1000 will be fine. It will just take a bit longer on the 1000 side without having intermediate grits helping.

How sharp will i be able to get my knife with this stone?
Click to expand...

If you look at the edge too hard your eyes will bleed. :eek:
You should be able to shave the hair off your arms with no difficulty.

How fast will this stone wear out?
Click to expand...

You can do ALL the knives in your house, once a week, for the next several years before wearing out your stones. You shouldn't be sharpening all your knives every week though. 3-4 times a year will probably be enough.

$40 for this stone a rip off?
Click to expand...

Not at all. Better quality stones sell for several hundred dollars each. The Norton stones are good enough quality for anything I'd ever need to do. I use the better stones because I want to use them.

Understand this, though. You can get an edge just as sharp using $3 worth of sandpaper or $1,200 worth of Japanese water stones. And neither the sandpaper nor the water stones will last as long as that $40 Norton, which will produce the very same edge. :)

Stitchawl
 
Whatever you choose to do, you're going to have practice. There's no way around it. If I ever find another way, I'll let you know.

The DMT Aligner coupled with a sharpie marker (hm, is that why they're called sharpies, because they aid in the sharpening process?) were the best 2 tools that helped me learn the mechanics of sharpening.

For the past couple months now, I've stuck only to freehanding. I'm changing my methods all the time: sometimes I sharpen toward myself, and sometimes I do it pushing outward. You just have to get some experience and decide what's the most comfortable method for you.

Diamond stones have been my friend these past few years. I like the way they cut into the steel a lot better than ceramic. I think it'd be worth it to get the 6x2 stones by DMT if you have the money and if you only sharpen medium-sized pocket knives.

Good luck, and have fun.
 
Thanks man. I appreciate all your detailed responses. Im gona go with the 220/1000 grit Norton Waterstone. Let the practice begin :p

stitchawl said:
You're not going to ruin the stone... even if you try to! :p
After sharpening about 50 knives you might want to flatten the stone by rubbing it on a smooth cement floor (such as a car garage floor.) Very expensive natural waterstones wear out faster then the man-made stones most people use. I doubt you would wear out a Norton in the next few years.




Something course, about 220, and something finer, about 600-800. Getting one that is 220/1000 will be fine. It will just take a bit longer on the 1000 side without having intermediate grits helping.



If you look at the edge too hard your eyes will bleed. :eek:
You should be able to shave the hair off your arms with no difficulty.



You can do ALL the knives in your house, once a week, for the next several years before wearing out your stones. You shouldn't be sharpening all your knives every week though. 3-4 times a year will probably be enough.



Not at all. Better quality stones sell for several hundred dollars each. The Norton stones are good enough quality for anything I'd ever need to do. I use the better stones because I want to use them.

Understand this, though. You can get an edge just as sharp using $3 worth of sandpaper or $1,200 worth of Japanese water stones. And neither the sandpaper nor the water stones will last as long as that $40 Norton, which will produce the very same edge. :)

Stitchawl
Click to expand...
 
The cheapest method is to start with a Norton Combo stone, Coarse and Fine India. They run about $20 and can be found at Granger, or in most woodworking shops. You might even start with a $5 stone from Lowes or Home Depot. They are gray and dark gray, for fine and coarse respectively. The edge off the orange Fine India stones will catch hair on the back of my head above the skin and whittle hair from my beard. I used mine dry, stone in one hand, knife in the other and using my thumb as an angle guide on the spine. Raise a burr on the coarse side, remove with alternating strokes on the fine side. Increase the angle slightly when removing the burr.
 
I have been using the DMT stones since giving up on the Lansky. They seem to help me get an acceptable edge.

SB
 
Sierra Trading Post sells multiple grades of Arkansas stones cheap. I suggest buying 2-3 from there. Get them in the boxes and they're easy to store. I prefer my stones to be a minimum of 6" long and 2" wide. Bigger is better for most blades.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/
 
me2 said:
The cheapest method is to start with a Norton Combo stone, Coarse and Fine India. They run about $20 and can be found at Granger, or in most woodworking shops. You might even start with a $5 stone from Lowes or Home Depot. They are gray and dark gray, for fine and coarse respectively. The edge off the orange Fine India stones will catch hair on the back of my head above the skin and whittle hair from my beard. I used mine dry, stone in one hand, knife in the other and using my thumb as an angle guide on the spine. Raise a burr on the coarse side, remove with alternating strokes on the fine side. Increase the angle slightly when removing the burr.
Click to expand...

Good info.. Good post . This is what I've said for years here . They have far better value/economy than others and the blade gets sharp . DM
 
me2 said:
The cheapest method is to start with a Norton Combo stone, Coarse and Fine India. They run about $20 and can be found at Granger, or in most woodworking shops. You might even start with a $5 stone from Lowes or Home Depot.
Click to expand...

The Norton combo stone IS the $5 stone at Home Depot; I've been considering getting it :D
 
After 45-years of knife sharpening, I havE forsaken natural stones and now use exclusively diamond plates. They can be used dry or with water. They simply need to be scrubbed with a bursh and water to unclog them. They cut faster and so not wear unevenly. They are just as good with high carbon as with various stainless steels. Ragnar at ragweedforge has a number of choicesl. They will serve you well.

yours truly,
the outlaw
 
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