sharpening with sandpaper on a flat surface? any tips on strops?

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Aug 28, 2011
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I'm thinking about getting some sandpaper that can be used with water and laying it on a flat surface for sharpening. will it work? have you done it? if you have, do you mind giving me some advice?

will sandpaper work on D2, 154 cm, vg 10, cpm s30v?

I'm going to get some sharpening stones, but I don't think those the are fine enough.

I'm also planning on buying a leather strop and some paste to use with it. do you have any recommendation on strops and paste?
 
When stropping with sandpaper to make a convex edge I use a brick. Yeah a brick with folded paper towels under the sandpaper to create a soft surface, like how some people use mouse pads.

It will work on any type of steel, however some steels are easier to sharpen than others.
 
I use wet/dry sandpaper over glass on my 10XX and 12c27. An it works well. On my D2 it works but leaves a rough edge. The sandpaper will abrade the iron carbides but starts to struggle with the chromium carbides in D2 and 154CM. The vanadium carbides in VG-10 and S30V are really hard HRc @ 82 and the sandpaper has trouble cutting those carbides for a fine edge. Reports on the forum indicate that it leaves a rough edge indicating that the carbides are pulling out of the steel or standing proud of the steel. Many believe the best way to sharpen these knives to a fine edge with their harder carbides is by using diamond stones. Likewise with the strop using a diamond spray or paste. Note:even though the edge is not as refined as it could be, the blades will still cut well and hold their edge.
 
I've used wet/dry sandpaper to refine & polish the edge bevels on VG-10, S30V and D2 (and others). No problems in creating a fine edge with it, through 2000 grit. Especially VG-10, which isn't that abrasion-resistant anyway, in comparison to D2/S30V. There's minimal vanadium in VG-10, at 0.1 - 0.3 %; enough to aid in grain refinement, but not much surplus to form vanadium carbides. D2 (~1%) and S30V (4%) have much more surplus vanadium for that. As with any of the more wear-resistant steels, time to finish is variable. A diamond hone is handy, but not necessary, for initially setting a new bevel on wear-resistant steels. Beyond that, the sandpaper works fine (great, in fact).

A hard backing for the sandpaper can work to advantage with sandpaper, when honing wear-resistant steels. The firmer backing will allow the abrasive to cut more aggressively, than on a softer backing (as with convexing).
 
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this may be a stupid question, but when using sandpaper to sharpen, do you push it with the edge first like on stones?
 
You can use sandpaper exactly like you would use a stone. You can go edge first, edge trailing, circular, whatever you please. Even on soft backing, I have not cut into the sandpaper when going edge first. Definetly not a problem on a hard backing.

Sandpaper is great because you can cheaply acquire a large array of grits, that would be insanely expensive to buy if you had to get a stone for each different one.

Bo T has a point about the carbide hardness on steels like S30V. In theory the sandpaper (usually aluminum oxide or silicon carbide) is much harder than the steel matrix, but slightly less or roughly equal to the hardness of the vanadium carbides interspersed throughout the steel. So it will abrade the steel down to an edge, but the little chunks of carbide at the edge cannot be worn down by the sandpaper- they either get knocked out by the force of sharpening, leaving a jagged edge on a microscopic level, or remain there sticking out from the edge. You would need diamond abrasives to wear down the carbides reliably. This is not just an issue with sandpaper, but all abrasives which are not diamond.

However, in practice I don't find this to be an issue. I do have course diamond hones, but I use either sandpaper or waterstones for the higher grits. I can get S30V just as sharp, with as high of a polish, as my other steels. Which means cleanly pushcutting phonebook paper, hair popping sharp. Perhaps you would have trouble achieving absolute perfection with sandpaper, but you can get it plenty sharp. Besides, the carbides on a very fine S30V edge are not too stable, and tend to cause the edge to become toothy rather quickly. It will then hold that toothy edge a long, long time. So, it is not so productive to put that perfect hair splitting edge on. What you get with sandpaper should be fine.
 
I used 2 HD paint stir sticks, that were free from the big box home improvement store. Glued them together, got a mouse pad, cut it in 4 strips to fit the width of the stir sticks & epoxied them on. I use the wet/dry sandpaper, wet, to convex an edge & polish it . I have up to 2500 grit.

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Most of my blades are choppers, thats why i wanted more length to the surface. Works great. It is high enough up so your not dragging your fingers & having the pad on both sides also lets it grip the table top & stay in place better. Hope this helps.
 
There a couple more possibilities w/r to carbides and not being able to cut them with the sharpening abrasive. Either the steel will be worn away, leaving the carbide exposed, the carbide gets torn out, carbide is cut/abraded, or the carbide fractures. In any case, large carbides make an extremely fine edge difficult, relatively speaking.
 
I know that vanadium carbides are north of 80 rockwell, and that diamonds are the only thing that will abrade them well. I don't think that chromium carbides are quite that hard, but I'm having some trouble finding the rockwell hardness for chromium carbides and for silicon carbide. I know SiC is 9+ on the Mohs scale (where diamond is 10). I suspect that SiC paper should be able to handle chromium carbides in steels like D2. Aluminum Oxide, maybe not.

Anyone have same data for the harness of abrasives and the carbides found in high-end steels?
 
Any of the steels I've sharpened with high chromium carbides haven't been an issue with sandpaper (SiC or AlOx). In fact, I think my best results on high-chromium blades (440C & VG-10 especially) have been produced on sandpaper. One of my personal 'best' achievements, early on, was convexing a D2-bladed Queen folder on wet/dry paper. Turned out great, and much better than I expected. Diamond seems a bit of overkill on these steels, for me, except for initial bevel-setting. The sandpaper really seems to excel in the subsequent finishing stages.

Now, the vanadium carbides in S30V are another story... ;)
 
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