sharpening with sandpaper

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pennard

Joined
Mar 29, 2007
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Why do people sharpen with oilstones or waterstones when they can sharpen in the same way with different grades of sandpaper or wet and dry paper over a pane of glass, this option seems to be the same method of sharpening but the with the sandpaper it is alot cheaper than a quality stone, you have the choice of many grades abrasivenes as opposed to the usual 2 on a double sided stone and also you have a far larger surface to sharpen on (a whole sheet of sand paper as opposed to a small stone edge).
 
The commonly available sandpaper usually just goes up until 2000 grit. If you want to get finer than that, you have to use stones.

I use sandpaper for rebeveling and reprofiling.
 
I don't use a small stone, I prefer one that is 8 to 12 inches long. I don't get as smooth an edge on paper as I would expect given the grit ratings. I think that there are two issues, first the substrate is paper which gives a little and can slightly round the edge (if used edge forwards) and secondly the grit on new paper has a bit more variation in height than a used hone.

When I travel I sometimes buy a set of Wet or Dry paper to sharpen a relatives' knives. Usually their knives are dull enough that whatever I do is a big improvement. I haven't yet found a way to match the edge I get on my ceramic stones on sand paper. I would like to, but I'm not there yet.
 
Waterstones are far more effective than using the same grit sand paper, this is why I use waterstones. I have grits ranging from 220 to 8,000 so sandpaper just doesn't compare to me.
 
I've used wet/dry sandpaper, with a splash of water over it on a glass backing with good results. I've also used the same paper over a mousepad for convexing.

There are several very good systems that work well. Sandpaper works, waterstones work if you're a bit artistic and can hold your angles properly. the Sharpmaker and Crock Sticks also work extremely well.

I'm not sure that any one system is better than another. If you learn a system well it will work for you!:)

Ben
 
Sandpaper has lower initial costs, but outpaces waterstones in the 1000-2000 grit levels really quickly. I use lapping film (glorified sandpaper) once I go past 8000 grit on my waterstones, but that's after all of the grunt work was done on diamonds and the prep and mostly finished work was done on waterstones. When the last few steps aren't even needed, $2 lapping film is better than a $90 waterstone. That's what I must keep telling myself.
 
thombrogan said:
Sandpaper has lower initial costs, but outpaces waterstones in the 1000-2000 grit levels really quickly. I use lapping film (glorified sandpaper) once I go past 8000 grit on my waterstones, but that's after all of the grunt work was done on diamonds and the prep and mostly finished work was done on waterstones. When the last few steps aren't even needed, $2 lapping film is better than a $90 waterstone. That's what I must keep telling myself.
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I tell myself the same thing, but I have been having to slap myself to avoid ordering the 16000 grit Shapton Glasstone today. I have a feeling that by tomorrow evening it will be ordered, as I just got paid today and have poor impulse control. My 1K/2K/8K Glasstones work so good my mind keeps telling me the 16K Glasstone would be much better than the $2 films I now use. I would be able to sharpen edge into without gouging and ruining a film, and the Glasstones are just plain bad ass. But $2 per film is a hell of a lot cheaper than the $99 that stone costs. I could probably buy a good Gyuto for that.

Mike
 
Or you could wait for a g/d care package and apply that extra loot towards a trip you have planned. And then buy a gyuto. Unless, of course, the gyuto you want is made by Takeda Hamono, in which case, place your order now as Shosui Takeda is raising his prices next year. Mine's is finally 40% as sharp as C-Dawg's which makes it pretty darned sharp. Gotta try tomatoes, but it guillotines cucumbers without the slight pull. Only took three extensive resharpenings. Stick with D8XX/D8C and/or D8F, 1/2/8, and green and white.

Stropping with lapping film, sandpaper, or polishing cloth over a hard, flat surface is what Tiggers do best! Whoo hoo hoo hoo!
 
Back from the dead, I was too weak and ordered the 16000 grit Shapton Glasstone I wanted 2 years ago finally. My $2 lapping film is great, but there is something about the great feeling you get from the Glasstones, and in .92 micron it should make for crazy mirrored edges that are beyond scary sharp. I can't wait to try it out on the 65 RC M2 knife I am resetting the bevel on. It is being sharpened flat to the stone, theni can test it against my M4 Mule. I will bring the Mule to 16K as well (and probably the rest of my knives at a mere 8K mirrored polish on the backbevel. This will be a fun stone (it better be!). Oh yeah, I also bought that Takeda that Thom mentioned in the last post in 2007. It will really benefit from this new stone.

Mike
 
Don't forget a fine scouring powder like Bon Ami on moistened glass, and for a really fine grit, Arm and Hammer baking soda on moistened glass. The baking soda has to be way, way up there in grit fineness because it will polish scratches from eye glasses, binoculars, etc. Takes a while but it works.
 
I am trying to learn on sand paper, am using a wooden cutting board, mouse pad, and glass. Just don't seem to do as well as with other methods.
 
Congrats, Mike!

My Shaptons (which don't include a 16K) are packed up for now. Using a Spyderco Double-Stuff to maintain my Superhawk's edge. It's not the sensual experience of a Takeda gyuto sharpened with a finishing stone, but it's nice in its own right.
 
thombrogan said:
Congrats, Mike!

My Shaptons (which don't include a 16K) are packed up for now. Using a Spyderco Double-Stuff to maintain my Superhawk's edge. It's not the sensual experience of a Takeda gyuto sharpened with a finishing stone, but it's nice in its own right.
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I owe you an e mail. I also need a double stuff for all of my mobile sharpening needs.

Mike
 
When using wet/dry sandpaper or an abrasive on piece of glass, granite tile etc, do you guys use an edge forward stroke? If so, can you elaborate?
 
Hello everyone;

I've read with great interest all the different methods, ie: stones, ceramic crock-sticks diamond stones etc. with which to sharpen knives and the good things is, they actually all work. The only real difference is the technique you use.

More good knives are ruined by sharpening than by using them incorrectly but a good technique used to sharpen a knife can bring it back from the dead.

Two extremely important factors should be remembered when sharpening a knife. What will the knife edge be used for, and what kind of steel is it made from? The hardness of the edge is very important as well.

A broad, say a 30 degree will give you an edge that while not as sharp as it could be, holds the edge longer, and a narrower say a 25 degree angle gives you the ability to make an edge "razor" sharp, it isn't necessarily as tough as the previous one.

Sharpening a knifes edge is something that takes a little practice but the nice thing is, just about anyone can get a decent edge with a little practice and good technique.

Matchlock.
 
looker said:
When using wet/dry sandpaper or an abrasive on piece of glass, granite tile etc, do you guys use an edge forward stroke? If so, can you elaborate?
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Generally, it's edge-trailing/stropping. With mylar-backed abrasives - after making sure all the air bubbles have been removed - edge forward will work, but it's an expensive "oops" when it happens.

Here's a more talented version of what I do as I learned it from the guy in the video:

[youtube]4--HIDogrc8[/youtube]
 
thombrogan said:
Generally, it's edge-trailing/stropping. With mylar-backed abrasives - after making sure all the air bubbles have been removed - edge forward will work, but it's an expensive "oops" when it happens.

Here's a more talented version of what I do as I learned it from the guy in the video:

[youtube]4--HIDogrc8[/youtube]
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That video and your comments are what inspired me to experiment with sandpaper. I'm practicing on reg. wet/dry. My woodworking chisels and planes using a diy honing jig - which is nothing more than a block of wood and a screw are great. But freehanding a knife + a forward edge stroke == oops. I keep cutting into the paper and don't know of a jig that doesn't ride on the paper.
 
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thombrogan said:
If you want to wait until Tuesday, that's cool with me. I bet our pal in Vermont could get you a Double Stuff. Or a Pro-File set.
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I'll hit you up on Teusday if I remember, these 60 hour weeks are making me forget lots of stuff. I will definately e mail our pal in Vermont about some Spyderco sharpening gear.

Mike
 
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