Sharpest steel?

Wowbagger said:
Did Spyderco ever make a run of Para 2s in that steel ?
What else is a similar knife with 52100 that can be had with out too much effort?
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Recently Spyderco made a run of the Military in 52100. They are available on the used market for higher prices than when they were new but not outrageous if you really have to have one. I have read that there will be a run of the PM2 in 52100 sometime in the future.
 
I believe the finer the grain the the sharper it can get. I am assuming we measure the sharpness as the lowest angle possible with the cleanest and uniformest apex possible.
For what it worth I do not think this property has any real day to day life benefit. Hence, in day to day life (non laboratory environment) most steel will get almost equally sharp.
 
I can get all of my knives scary sharp with my Wicked Edge Sharpening System. So far the sharpest results I've managed to ever get is the M390 on the We Knife Co 705. It's pretty thick behind the edge, but still manages to get sharper than anything else I've ever attempted.
 
Cpmd3v said:
Sorry if this has been threaded already im new to bf. So I just sharpened m4 for the first time and got me thinking what was sharper ? Cpm 154 is the sharpest I've felt with . How about you all?
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Definitely plain tool steel like 1095.Those unalloyed steels have a rough/toothy quality to them like micro serrations so they don't seem as affected by coarse materials cutting.

Of Stainless Steels though the absolute sharpest is quite a few...

*420J2 or 3Cr13
*420HC or 5Cr15
*7Cr17MoV (Gerber's Steel-440A Modified)
*AUS Series-AUS-4,AUS-6,and AUS-8...never used 8Cr13MoV
*Sandvik 13C26
*Sandvik 14C28N
*Victorinox and Wenger(R.I.P.) Stainless Steel

There's a few more but I'm sticking with what's still used on cutlery today.These are all inexpensive and fine-blanking steels.But they are also the most fine grained,soft, and will deliver the most promising level of razor sharpness.If every knife brand switched to premium steels for mass production knives and ditched the traditional steels...it would be a very bad change.
 
Frotier76 said:
Definitely plain tool steel like 1095.Those unalloyed steels have a rough/toothy quality to them like micro serrations so they don't seem as affected by coarse materials cutting.

Of Stainless Steels though the absolute sharpest is quite a few...

*420J2 or 3Cr13
*420HC or 5Cr15
*7Cr17MoV (Gerber's Steel-440A Modified)
*AUS Series-AUS-4,AUS-6,and AUS-8...never used 8Cr13MoV
*Sandvik 13C26
*Sandvik 14C28N
*Victorinox and Wenger(R.I.P.) Stainless Steel

There's a few more but I'm sticking with what's still used on cutlery today.These are all inexpensive and fine-blanking steels.But they are also the most fine grained,soft, and will deliver the most promising level of razor sharpness.If every knife brand switched to premium steels for mass production knives and ditched the traditional steels...it would be a very bad change.
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Agreed with 3Cr13, have not tried Gerber's 5Cr15MoV on my new blades yet.

7Cr17. 8Cr13Mov and AUS-8 are a mixed bag. I have gotten my Gerber Evo Jr, my S&Ws and Schrades as sharp as my amateur techniques on the Lansky clamping system will allow (push-cutting magazine and newspaper pages ought to be plenty sharp for most people), but I just don't find them to be as sharp as I would like it to be compared with 3Cr13. On the downside, that razor fine edge on 3Cr13 would roll if you as much as looked at it wrongly.

The sharpest I have ever gotten is on a SanRenMu using 12C27. Now THAT is a steel can take a frightening edge.
 
Carbon = 1095 Stainless = Bohler M390...Guess which one easiest and which one hardest to sharpen....They both have their respective uses applications. I personally don't feel that one is better than the other without a stated purpose for selection.
 
Well... my Scandi grind by Ivan Campos in 1070 is easily the sharpest blade in my collection, but the more complex large carbide steels like D2 and S30V seem to cut very well, too.
 
Icehawk said:
According to this guy, and it makes sense to me, there is a reason we "feel" like carbon steel can get sharper - the steel grains can be smaller than the carbide grains, an edge without carbides can thus be made that tiny bit thinner.

http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/carbon-steel-blades-and-grain-size.1503062
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I wonder how the powedered steels compare in that regard. The main purpose of CPM type processes is to reduce carbide size and have it more evenly distributed throughout the alloy making it perform more like carbon steel. Anyone know if the powdered steels carbides are still larger than carbons steel variants?
 
zJones said:
Carbon = 1095 Stainless = Bohler M390...Guess which one easiest and which one hardest to sharpen....They both have their respective uses applications. I personally don't feel that one is better than the other without a stated purpose for selection.
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most people know that the M390 will be harder to sharpen. That is the trade off of having a high performance steel with good corrosion resistance.
 
PURPLEDC said:
most people know that the M390 will be harder to sharpen. That is the trade off of having a high performance steel with good corrosion resistance.
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I certainly agree, but probably *harder to sharpen* is understating the challenge. With out specialized tools to sharpen (M390) it will not reach it's potential...for myself, I chased the super steels for several years but once I discovered they are not gonna save the world I kinda wish some models of my ZT's for example had the *lessor* steels...kinda...I might change my mind when I get my wicked edge but my Emerson Mule and My Esee4 are still my SHTF knives. I like the Homefront for a folder after we exchange nukes on the day after LOL.
 
zJones said:
I certainly agree, but probably *harder to sharpen* is understating the challenge. With out specialized tools to sharpen (M390) it will not reach it's potential...for myself, I chased the super steels for several years but once I discovered they are not gonna save the world I kinda wish some models of my ZT's for example had the *lessor* steels...kinda...I might change my mind when I get my wicked edge but my Emerson Mule and My Esee4 are still my SHTF knives. I like the Homefront for a folder after we exchange nukes on the day after LOL.
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I really don't have a problem with things like m390 or s35vn. But I also don't let my knives get dull. I have an edgepro apex and never use it. I use the ceramic rod that come with it and a strop. Maintaining an edge I find is a hell of a lot easier than resurrecting one. Now, I too would rather have something like CPM154 vs M390, S90V or S110V. But that's just because it requires even less time. But I don't think you need a wicked edge to enjoy super steels. In fact I would probably buy a work sharp or better yet a 1" belt sander with some good belts. IMHO the wicked edge is highly overrated as is the apex.
 
Sharpest, that is tough. Simple carbon steels get the sharpest. I have found Aeb L, CTS-PD1, pattern welded steels(Damascus) and damasteel, CPM M4, CPM 154, K390, Z-Finit, 420HC, and CPM 3V all get extremely sharp.
I find 20CV and it's equivalents to be one of the easiest to maintain. All they take is a quick one minute touch up every couple days of hard use. It also gets very sharp! If I could only have two steels in my life it would definitely be 20CV for small blades and 3V for larger blades, and I'd be set!
 
PURPLEDC said:
I really don't have a problem with things like m390 or s35vn. But I also don't let my knives get dull. I have an edgepro apex and never use it. I use the ceramic rod that come with it and a strop. Maintaining an edge I find is a hell of a lot easier than resurrecting one. Now, I too would rather have something like CPM154 vs M390, S90V or S110V. But that's just because it requires even less time. But I don't think you need a wicked edge to enjoy super steels. In fact I would probably buy a work sharp or better yet a 1" belt sander with some good belts. IMHO the wicked edge is highly overrated as is the apex.
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Hey Purple, My son Mike who I consider an expert and knows more than me (I just can't tell him that tho) has said the same thing about the Wicked Edge and in fact said the work sharp is a better way to go at any price...how funny. We are agreed that keeping the edge is a better plan than restoration...common sense eh? Funny that Esee for example will give me a new ESEE4 if I break it if it's made out of 1095 but won't do that for the 440 Stainless or whatever it is they use...My Emerson Mule is the only fixed blade that has SS. and I am not worried much about breaking it but trying not to get to far off topic brings up another point.

That is to say the Grind is very relevant to how easy a knife is to sharpen just as the tools you have to sharpen it with...so, it may be hard to pin down the answer here because there are a lot of forces to deal with when it come time to sharpen your knife....certainly the type of steel, but the grind and the tools you have to sharpen it with too...temperature? humidity? patience? Left handed or right handed? LOL....S35VN is one of my favorite all around cowboys because it is possible to service it from the perspective of keeping it sharp...once dull most the Crucibles I have had are gonna take some time to recover...like you say, keep em sharp is best idea.

3B
 
zJones said:
Hey Purple, My son Mike who I consider an expert and knows more than me (I just can't tell him that tho) has said the same thing about the Wicked Edge and in fact said the work sharp is a better way to go at any price...how funny. We are agreed that keeping the edge is a better plan than restoration...common sense eh? Funny that Esee for example will give me a new ESEE4 if I break it if it's made out of 1095 but won't do that for the 440 Stainless or whatever it is they use...My Emerson Mule is the only fixed blade that has SS. and I am not worried much about breaking it but trying not to get to far off topic brings up another point.

That is to say the Grind is very relevant to how easy a knife is to sharpen just as the tools you have to sharpen it with...so, it may be hard to pin down the answer here because there are a lot of forces to deal with when it come time to sharpen your knife....certainly the type of steel, but the grind and the tools you have to sharpen it with too...temperature? humidity? patience? Left handed or right handed? LOL....S35VN is one of my favorite all around cowboys because it is possible to service it from the perspective of keeping it sharp...once dull most the Crucibles I have had are gonna take some time to recover...like you say, keep em sharp is best idea.

3B
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Yeah my reason for disliking the wicked edge is the same reason I dislike any clamping sharpener. And that is it doesn't adjust for grind transitions. IMHO being able to control the knife over the abrasive is paramount in keeping an even edge. When you clamp in your blade and you use stones on rods the angle gets more shallow as you work to the tip. Now things like the apex you can move the blade around to compensate but most people don't because they rely on the flats for an anchor point. Now with that said sharpening by hand, especially when motors and belts are concerned it gets scary. You really don't want to mess anything up. But I have found the more gadgets I buy to try and eliminate the need to learn the worse my knives turn out. And that sometimes you just cant beat a little bit of hand work. I used to be so intimidated by free hand sharpening. But once you understand the basic mechanics of it you really start to see how easy it really is and that for the most part we tend to overthink it and assume there needs to be some secret sauce to it.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Yeah my reason for disliking the wicked edge is the same reason I dislike any clamping sharpener. And that is it doesn't adjust for grind transitions. IMHO being able to control the knife over the abrasive is paramount in keeping an even edge. When you clamp in your blade and you use stones on rods the angle gets more shallow as you work to the tip. Now things like the apex you can move the blade around to compensate but most people don't because they rely on the flats for an anchor point. Now with that said sharpening by hand, especially when motors and belts are concerned it gets scary. You really don't want to mess anything up. But I have found the more gadgets I buy to try and eliminate the need to learn the worse my knives turn out. And that sometimes you just cant beat a little bit of hand work. I used to be so intimidated by free hand sharpening. But once you understand the basic mechanics of it you really start to see how easy it really is and that for the most part we tend to overthink it and assume there needs to be some secret sauce to it.
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Makes total sense to me...you really do sound like my boy...he has as much said the exact same thing and the way he put it was once you figure out the type of knife you want to use then learn how best to service it, because they all are different even being the same steel...to be clear, Emersons 154 is different than Benchmades 154 because they are cured different...same steel but different results (winner being Ernie LOL)

Don't mean to hijack the thread but this is all relevant and probably safe to say there is no free lunch here. More durable steels are going to require more expertise to get them sharpened to max potential. We all want the best performance we can get.

3B
 
Japaneese White paper steel "shirogami" number 1a by Hitachi metals.

At 62-64 HRC
15dps with.010 behind edge

Anyone can make a hard Poppin edge with this stuff
 
Big ol' open ended question...

For me, I seem to be able to get 1095, VG-10 and AUS-8 to a pretty sharp state. 12C27 is right there too.

They won't stay that way as long as our current batch of super steels will, but they don't take much effort to get there.

And they won't break the bank. Guess they have a pretty good "Dollars to Sharpness" ratio. ;)
 
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