Sharpmaker and Henckel's

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MStarmer

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Okay as you can see by the number of posts I'm a newbie to this forum... Found it on GlockTalk my regular hangout.

After many frustrating years of not knowing how to sharpen anything I finally bought the razor's edge book and bought a new Spyderco Sharpmaker and the diamond rods as well (for reprofiling all my messed up knifes). I couldn't swing the Edgepro but may add that after some saving up goes.

My first question is I have a block of Henckel's that have been abused over the last 5 or 6 years and I thought they would be a good place to start. They seem to be a quality knife and so I started by taking the paring knife and reprofiling it down to 15 degrees (the 30 back bevel on the sharpmaker) as I wanted it to be scary sharp! No problem as it sharpened right up but I can't seem to get the steel to develop a "burr" so to speak. In fact when down to the white stones when gently making the passes I swear I can hear it breaking off with a tingy kind of sound. The knife can easily shave hair but under the Radio Shack magnifier looks like crap and lot's of pits and breaks.

Is it just the steel in these knives ($125 for the set I think) just too cheap to take an edge this fine? Would I be better off using the 20 degree and just sharpen them up for kitchen use with the coarse stones and call it good.

I assume my Benchmade Griptillian could take the 30 degree but I don't want to destroy the edge if the same thing will happen.

Thanks, sorry if this has been covered but the search results are so overwhelming sometimes it's just easier to ask.

MStarmer
 
MStarmer,

I have Henkles myself and this MIGHT help.

Henckels are factory set at 22 degrees (If I was told right, years ago when I bought some).

The steel they use is very soft (in my book). I don't think they will hold at 15 degrees. There is one knife everybody uses at my house and I keep it at 20. And it still requires touch up weekly!

I don't get much of a burr at all on those things except with a belt sander. Again I think it's the soft steel.

(My poor wife doesn't have one of my knives!)

>> but under the Radio Shack magnifier looks like crap

Are these marks left by the stones (they will be uniform and in the same direction) or just old marks gathered over the years?

If they are old marks you can keep sharpening until they are gone. But it might be better to have a pro reset the edges (grind them down, clean them up, whatever you want to call it) and you take care of them from there.

However, if they are cutting well, I'd just keep doing what you're doing. Kitchen knives just don't keep a pretty egde.

Remember - that burr business is just for restoring an edge. You don't want to do lots of 'grinding' everytime you sharpen. Just touch them up enough to get them to cut or you'll wear out your knives. Put another way, you 'hone' the edge for the daily/weekly stuff and sharpen when that doesn't work anymore.

If you really have them at 15 degrees then I suggest doing your touchups from now on at 20 degrees. You'll have a nice double bevel and they will last.

A good 20 degree will still pop hairs.

Steve
 
The Sharpmaker at 15-degrees should work fine. The diamond rods are very coarse and may be part of the issue. Do not use the corners of the diamond rods and don't press too hard when you are using them. You will probably only observe your burr if you sharpen one side of the blade at a time. If you alternate sides you will have smaller and random micro burrs. These will appear as heavy surface roughness and fragile micro teeth. Lighten up as you finish with the diamond rods.

There will be a large jump in grit size when you go to the medium (grey-brown) ceramic rods. You will need to to a lot of strokes with these rods to remove the scratches and micro burrs left by the diamond rods. I would only do a few strokes with the edges of the medium rods before switching to the flat sides of these hones. I worry that you will not get a smooth edge contour if you use the hone edges very much on the ragged base left by the diamond hone. Expect to do at least 20 strokes per side on the medium rod flats to smooth out the diamond hone scratches. At this point you will need to deburr the edge. Switch the medium rods to the 20 degree position and lightly stroke alternating sides--while you tilt the spine of the blade away from the rods (past verticle) so that you are lightly honing at about 30 to 40 degree. You are doing this about 5 to 10 strokes per side to remove the last remnants of the micro burrs you formed with the diamond rods.

Now you are done with reprofiling and can sharpen per the Spyderco instructions. Put the stones back in the 15 degree slots and lightly go through the sequence of about 5 strokes per side with medium rods (edges then flats) and then fine rods (edges then flats). As a finishing step you will do a few very light strokes on the rods at a 20 degree per side setting. This not only makes the edge a bit more durable it will also make it sharper. I prefer to finish with very light strokes on the medium rods since it gives a nice microserration that slices aggressively. If you only plan to push cut with the edge you might make those last few very light strokes at 20 degrees using the fine white rods. This still slices well and is more of a razor style edge.
 
Thanks guys for the tips!

After looking at some of the others knives that I haven't sharpened yet I'm thinking that the blades were just in really poor shape. I hadn't sharpened them really since I bought them and they have more chips/nicks out of them than I realized. The one knife that I took down to 15 Degrees I resharpened at 20 and that took away some of the problem area. I tried with another starting with the diamond rods then working my way up, but this time all at 20 and it seemed to work fine. They are light years ahead of what they were before and will shave hair (barely) and I think with regular maintenance now and keeping consistent angles they'll smooth out over time. Every week I'll give them a few swipes on the grey stones at 20 and they should stay pretty sharp for regular use.

I think maybe my expectations were too high. It's funny when buying a knife for everyday carry like my Spyderco or Benchmade you think $100 isn't that much... But when buying Kitchen knives the $125 or so we spent for the set seemed like a fortune. I guess I need to realize there is a difference in the quality when you get 10 knives instead of one... I'm sure I could take my new Benchmade Griptillian down to 15 degrees no problem! :D

Thanks again!

MStarmer
 
Well put MStarmer, regarding the kitchen knives. I've wondered the same thing (how you can spend over $100 and get such a soft piece of steel).

I THINK (personal theory here) butcher knives are soft and butchers love them that way: It's easy to raise a wire edge and resharpen. Ever watch those guys with a steel? They are using a steel all day long.

This attribute carried over to all kitchen knives - use a soft steel that is easy to sharpen. (remember just my theory). However, does the average kitchen knife see the steel everyday?

The few kitchen knives I've sold in S30V are LOVED by their owners. One good sharpening and they last and last. The reports I get are they are sharper 6 months later than a Henkle one week later.

FFT,

Steve
 
In the old days before my time (back in the dark ages) the knives used by chefs were very soft but therefore very easy to sharpen. They were far too soft for me. My henkels knives are a good compromise between easy to sharpen and edge retention. Yes ,I'd like to try a S30V chefs knife .But the kitchen knifes are made to be sharpened with a steel.
 
Not sure which of the Henckels you have, they make many different types in different price ranges and quality. I recently purchased a set (indivdually) so I got what I wanted of the Henckels International Classic line. I reprofiled these to 30 degrees with no issues at all. I've also done the same in the past with Chicago Cutlery with no issues and they were no where near the quality of the Henckels. They may not hold the edge as long as at 40 degrees but using the steel regularly and touching them up now and then and they should be fine. I prefer the style and feel of German knives over Japanese even though the Japanese use harder steel.
 
Since this thread is 12 years old he probably got it figured out :rolleyes:
 
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