Sharpmaker - Kershaw "Needs Work" Help - get to hair popping

[dextersp1]

I have the Sharpmaker and a Kershaw "Needs Work" in 13C26 steel.

I ran out of newspaper and only one arm has hair on it.

I have gotten the knife to cut newspaper with a slicing motion but not very well with a pushing motion.

As far as hair goes - it doesn't pop - more of a scrape.

I'm using the flat side of the white rods and I think my technique is good - it feels right.

Any suggestions how I can get the blade to to hair popping level.

It is a new knife and it wasn't used before using it on the Sharpmaker.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The edge is probably more obtuse than the sticks on the Sharpmaker. I would make a pass very lightly right into the rods to flatten the edge and remove the weakened metal and then try some passes on the brown rods and see if the edge is restored, does not reflect light, immediately. If it does not then the angle is off.

-Cliff

 

[dextersp1]

Cliff,
Thanks for the tip.
I think it helped - the paper cutting got better but the hair still doesn't pop - I'll keep trying.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Is the edge shaving more on one side than the other?

-Cliff

 

[dextersp1]

Cliff,
I did a little more shaving.
It appears easier to shave my left arm.
The right arm is more of a scraping of the hair than the left.

 

[Knife_Geek]

Sounds like you have a bit of a burr built up. I would continue to work Very lightly on the white stones to try and minimze the burr

 

[Cliff Stamp]

That is a burr, reported with Kershaw's use of that steel by others, which is a bit ironic as that steel inherently actually is designed for minimal burr formation. The blade is either too soft of the edge damaged by the initial factory sharpening.

As the edge is just deforming from side to side, stop working it on the stones and make one light pass into the stone to grind it off. Now go back to the mediums and work lightly from one side to the other, alternating each side per stroke and stop when the blade gets very sharp. Only then go to the flats of the whites. Do not use the corners at all.

-Cliff

 

[shecky]

My Needs Work seemed to have a bit of a weak edge out of the box. I opened a soup can with it and the edge rolled the entire length that made contact. I had to sharpen down to good steel to get the edge in sturdy shape.

 

[dextersp1]

Wow! That is all good to know. This is my first time with a good knife and the Sharpmaker.

I thought I didn't spend enough time with the medium stones but I followed the instructions.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The instructions assume that the edge is acute enough to be honed readily and that the steel on the edge is actually quality material. Often neither of these is the case, generally only judge the edge holding of a knife after a number of full sharpenings to verify you are looking at the real abilties of the steel.

-Cliff

 

[dextersp1]

Thanks Cliff

Paper cutting much smoother.

Hair cutting smoother too but no popping yet.

I'll use the knife a bit and then dull it a bit as you suggested earlier and start the sharpening processing again.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

You might also want to cut the edge bevel down a fair bit on a coarse benchstone, assuming you are not cutting metals or similar, reduce it to ten degrees per side and then microbevel with the sharpmaker. That steel is very low carbide and thus it grinds very easily, you may in fact be able to file it. The lower angle will also offer much greater cutting ability in addition to the increase in ease of sharpening.

-Cliff

 

[Thomas W]

That is a burr, reported with Kershaw's use of that steel by others, which is a bit ironic as that steel inherently actually is designed for minimal burr formation. The blade is either too soft of the edge damaged by the initial factory sharpening.
-Cliff

Cliff, there has been one heck of a lot of praise for the steel. More so than you seem to want to give us credit for, but you continue to act like we have some inherent issue with the steel. It seems you are once again out to discredit the way we process 13C26 which is of no surprise. :thumbdn:

Here is a recent quote from Thom of whom I know you have at least a little respect for:

AEB-L/13C26 is absolutely awesome for tactical folders in the RC57-61 range. I've got some folders from Kershaw with that steel and they're just great.

There are other respected forumites we could quote as well, and then there is Sandvic themselves, but of course that wouldn't fit your statement above.

 

[Sword and Shield]

Cliff, there has been one heck of a lot of praise for the steel. More so than you seem to want to give us credit for, but you continue to act like we have some inherent issue with the steel. It seems you are once again out to discredit the way we process 13C26 which is of no surprise. :thumbdn:

Here is a recent quote from Thom of whom I know you have at least a little respect for:

There are other respected forumites we could quote as well, and then there is Sandvic themselves, but of course that wouldn't fit your statement above.

Typical Cliff, though. If it doesn't fit his preconceived prejudices or notions, it's wrong.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The steel burring causing issues with sharpness has been reported previously, including by Thom. The only reasons for this are underhardening or damaged edges from sharpening because inherently that steel is designed to have minimal burr formation when hardened optimally as it has a very fine carbide structure (micron) and low volume (few percent) and near full hardness martensite matrix (63/65 HRC) with a fine ausgrain (depends on rate of hardening/quench). Those are the facts, now continue uninterrupted with the personal vendetta.

In regards to the filing, it will likely tear the very edge apart so you might want to stop right before the very edge and then finish with a coarse stone to minimize metal waste. If it does not file well then the next fastest manual way is to use a 80 grit AO sanding belt glued to a piece of hardwood. That will take the edge down in just a few minutes, again you might want to stop just before the actual edge is hit as that belt will leave a microserration on the edge big enough to actually see by eye.

-Cliff

 

[shecky]

Originally Posted by Cliff Stamp View Post
That is a burr, reported with Kershaw's use of that steel by others, which is a bit ironic as that steel inherently actually is designed for minimal burr formation. The blade is either too soft of the edge damaged by the initial factory sharpening.
-Cliff

Cliff, there has been one heck of a lot of praise for the steel. More so than you seem to want to give us credit for, but you continue to act like we have some inherent issue with the steel. It seems you are once again out to discredit the way we process 13C26 which is of no surprise.

To be precise, it seems Cliff didn't discredit the steel, but rather the way Kershaw handles it.

:ducks-runs out of room:

 

[dextersp1]

You might also want to cut the edge bevel down a fair bit on a coarse benchstone, assuming you are not cutting metals or similar, reduce it to ten degrees per side and then microbevel with the sharpmaker. That steel is very low carbide and thus it grinds very easily, you may in fact be able to file it. The lower angle will also offer much greater cutting ability in addition to the increase in ease of sharpening.

-Cliff

Cliff,
Thanks again. But all I have to work with is the Sharpmaker. I've been using the 40 degree setting.

Could I somehow use the 30 degree setting and then the 40?

 

[Thomas W]

The only reasons for this are underhardening or damaged edges from sharpening...

Could it possibly be dexter causing the burr (no offense dexter)? How do you explain the lack of consistent complaints about burr's?

...now continue uninterrupted with the personal vendetta. Cliff

To be precise, it seems Cliff didn't discredit the steel, but rather the way Kershaw handles it.

To be really precise, Cliff has never even handled a piece of 13C26 done up by Kershaw.

You keep this kind of general manufacturing bashing up Cliff you're going to gather yourself a reputation around here.

 

[richard j]

dextersp1, if you live in the usa, send me your phone number and i'll call you this weekend and help you out with getting your knife sharpened. i havent found a knife yet, other than pakistan junk that i couldnt sharpen. i have used or seen just about every contraption out there but i use a set of cardboard wheels since they do a better job than anything i have used or seen. one important thing other than having the right angle is working up a good burr the full length of the blade, one that you can see and feel. once you have a burr worked up the next thing you want to do is remove the burr and polish the edge while retaining the angle. i hope this little bit helps.

 

[STR]

Burrs can form on any steel based on several factors and for that matter it can have as much to do with the pressure you use on the course stones when you begin as it has do with the type hones used more so than the steel. Some steels are simply harder to get a burr to form on and for various reasons. I usually take my edge down until it forms a burr with the course stone and use that as my sign that its done its job and that it is now time to move to a finer stone. Many sharpening instructions say to form a burr first with the course stone and go on from there. Read Emerson's web site instructions for example among others. Once you have the burr all the way down the edge, and providing you have at least a fairly even bevel you know you covered the apex well and can move forward and any sharpening after that with the same stone, and the same pressure is just oversharpening it if you ask me. I'd say you can really do very little more with that stone but to lighten up and then try to knock off the burr some by cutting into it and move on. Sometimes I'll take the blade with a burr on it and slice into a bar of rouge between grits.

I would suggest some stropping if you want to see it start popping off hairs in the end but you have to take the edge down progressively with the various grits to get to that level first.

You have to decide first what type of edge it is you want. Are you looking for a great push cutting edge for whittling or do you want a great slicing edge for cutting rope and rags and stuff like that? Once you figure that out you'll be better suited to continue forward with what you need to use to put the kind of edge on it that you use most often.

Highly polished push cutting AKA, hair popping edges are great but they probably won't appear to be as sharp for some of the slicing tasks as a courser more aggressive edge with some bite to it. Both can shave hairs but one is simply a finer toothed egde over the other. In my experience its harder to push a course or medium course slicing edge into hairs making them pop off the arm than it is a fine edge but you can do it with a course edge with a slice motion in conjunction with a push and they will then pop some hairs off readily.


STR