Sharpness levels defined

stitchawl, I had mentioned the thread cutting. I do it at times for my own reasons. The difficulties I see with it are

1)when knives get REALLY sharp, it is hard to read a scale with enough precision to have a meaningful estimate. My postal scale, which is fairly easy to use, is graduated at 1/2oz, which means that I could give a reliable estimate down to 1/4oz. The problem is that once you get down to 1oz, the changes in sharpness are going to be small, so a reliable .1 oz measurement would be much better, but at the same time, being able to have technique consistent enough not to vary the results by .1oz would be extremely difficult. I do have a scale that reads to less than 1/4000th of an oz (.1 grain), but since it uses a beam, even though the measurement would be extremely accurate, the measuring process would be an extremely tedious series of pass or fail tests. I guess that if a proper test was rigged.

In today's technology, more precise electronic scales are available quite cheaply. Scales that hold the number in memory after the subject has been removed. This has been the blessing of the various 'drug' stores and head shops evolving from the 60's.

2)When two knives of different edge geometries, finishes, or thickness are being compared. Is a DE razor blade that cuts thread at .75oz sharper than an EDC knife that cuts thread at 1oz?

This give rise to the need for a testing medium that will part when just the very edge of the blade cuts it, without need for the rest of the edge to follow. This should eliminate the problem of thicker blades with fatter geometries, and why I think sewing thread would work better than 1/2" thick hemp rope. The rope might work well for 'how long does it hold an edge?' but not as well for 'how sharp is it?'

3)When technique of two operators differ. What if one tends to hold the knife canted sideways 5*? What if one holds the edge completely horizontal, while the next holds it 10* from horizontal, so it tends to shear more efficiently? What if one has had too much coffee, and is shaking slightly, like I am rrrighttt noowwww?/ :D

If you are also referring to my 'old man shake' you do have a point. Although I can still thread a needle, I can't seem to get the garbage into the trash can under my desk! But 'user error' will continue to be a problem unless some sort of mechanical delivery device is instituted. Regardless, I still think that using a common testing medium and procedure will result in more accurate final results. While terms like tree topping and hair whittling do get the idea across, we need to have a way to deliminate between Zyhano's fair Scandinavian hair and my European gorilla hair!

4)When setup of the test is different. How much difference does it make if the string is loaded and taught with the edge making a large angle in the string vs. the edge making a small angle in the string due to much less slack? I haven't tested this one yet, but I *think* that this is one area where the test will stack variables badly as you get away from the sweet spot of the test

I agree. This will be a very big factor. This is why I suggested a 12" thread. Perhaps even less would be better. Thread stretched between two pencils/sticks, etc., to eliminate as much sag as possible, but without adding stretch to assist with the parting when the knife is pressed to it.

I don't mean for any of these to be reasons not to proceed, just mentioning the difficulties that I could think of the other night.

In Academia, there is no problem more difficult to solve than producing a fair and accurate test. (Most well educated native English speakers can NOT get a perfect score on ESL tests. [English as a Second Language.] Most score in the lower 90's) There are currently very expensive machines designed to test cutting power of edges, machines that cost thousands of dollars, and use ordinary sewing thread as their test medium. The machine stretches the thread to an exact tension. The machine delivers the edge to the thread eliminating even the weight of the blade as a factor. I say; 'we don't need a machine like this!' While it would be nice if everyone had one in their homes, it's just too expensive. We need a test that we can ALL use, using the same testing material, same testing method, same bat channel.

stitchawl, your idea of having 12" between points of support for the thread could remove a lot of the variability of angle/slack in the string before cutting, especially if the support was close to the testing fixture.

Thinking about it afterwords, 3"-4" would be better. My biggest problem is attaching the scale to measure. Today's digital scales take into consideration tare weight so we can remove the knife's weight from the final results. And we'd better come up with a solution pretty damn quickly because since running out of my own arm hair, I've been trying to borrow other arms. Strangers are starting to look at me funny.... :eek:


Stitchawl
 
Hey guys,

thanks all of you for thinking about this stuff, I think there are some good insights here even though the conclusion might be that it is hard to really define things properly.

I kind of promised to gather all the information together in this thread but I have to say that I don't really feel like making it a priority, it's going to take me time I don't want to spend on this, I'd rather post some other stuff here and there :)

I think everyone can find what he wants from reading these posts here, so I guess you can all live with that right?

anyway, thanks again for all your contributions :thumbup:
 
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