Sharpness of a survival knife

I have a one inch scar in my wrist where I stabbed myself with a dull razor knife.:eek: So, I sharpen my knives to shave sharp and when they are less sharp, not dull/ little less than pull sharp I'd say, I sharpen them again. I said it once on another forum but you never truly realize how nice a high quality, RAZOR sharp knife is until you use one.
 
Many thanks guys for your thoughts and feelings, the general concensus seems to be razor sharp, for reasons I understand.

One thought has come to mind is one persons sharp is another persons dull, as in my limited experience most Survival knives would normally be used for bracken clearing, chopping, cutting and breaking animal bones. I feel an edge should be sharper than an axe blade, but 'hair line razor sharp' ? isn't it just asking for the blade edge to chip or stress.

I guess one of the comments already stated is a true-ism in that a 'sharp blade in use will naturally dull in use'.

One last thought that no matter what sharpness the knife is, if you don't respect it and treat it right then you shouldn't be using it in the first place.

I use katana's in my training and my katanas occasionally kiss me ! (read light cut in to that statement) to remind me to keep my presence around me and respect the weapon I use. Running and walking draws are always difficult to perform and serious injury can occur, but fortuantely Ive survived so far LOL.

A big thank you to all who have inputted into this thread, its nice to know others opinions on this subject. Interestingly the Wilkinson Sword survival knife is not that sharp, but is an OK blade for camp uses, and feels comfortable for most field jobs apart from food preperation.

Many thanks Guys
 
One thought has come to mind is one persons sharp is another persons dull, as in my limited experience most Survival knives would normally be used for bracken clearing, chopping, cutting and breaking animal bones. I feel an edge should be sharper than an axe blade, but 'hair line razor sharp' ? isn't it just asking for the blade edge to chip or stress.

I think you're confusing edge sharpness with edge angle. You want the edge to be 'razor sharp', but not 'razor thin'. Both the blade thickness where the bevel starts and the angle that the bevel itself is made at (usually somewhere between 12-30 degrees) can mean the difference between the edge getting less sharp with use and getting chipped or rolled.
 
Let me give my "third" to what Joel and earlier Stretch said: The edge angle on a survival knife should be a more obtuse angle (say 20 degrees perside) than on your fillet knife (maybe 10 or 12 degrees per side). But both should be sharp!

On your Wilkinson, note that many if not most knives from major manufacturers do not come really sharp, and should have their edges refined for maximum usefulness and safety.
 
Any field knife should have a good sharp working edge and be capable of being touched up easily. The strength and flexibility of the blade are important too-- no need for exotic steels or brittle edges. As others said, blade geometry is very important. That said, I would want the knife as sharp as the geometry will allow-- they don't get sharper with use! Carry some sort of small sharpener-- there are small light ones with ceramic or diamond media. Check out Lansky Dog Bones, EZE Lap, and DMT.

Then the knife should be used in a craftsman-like manner: take care of the tool and it will take care of you. Once you have worked with well sharpened tools, you understand how it makes the job go faster, cleaner and more accurately. If you do wood carving, it is critical to getting good clean lines and intersections-- you must cut the wood rather than tear it.

Knowing how to use sharp tools safely is obviously important. Don't take chances with short cuts-- you'll lose sooner or later. Cut away from yourself and don't use your thigh for a workbench! Learn to place your feet properly when using axes. Someone wrote in another thread about using other wood between you and the axe to provide a safety barrier. I like that. Don't overuse the tool-- trying to do big jobs with a small tool will get you in trouble. Take a little more time and walk away whole.

You can quote me on this:

"A dull knife is like a dull mind-- it has no point!"
 
One thought has come to mind is one persons sharp is another persons dull, as in my limited experience most Survival knives would normally be used for bracken clearing, chopping, cutting and breaking animal bones. I feel an edge should be sharper than an axe blade, but 'hair line razor sharp' ? isn't it just asking for the blade edge to chip or stress.

I sharpen my axe to shaving sharp , it makes cutting easier than using a blunt axe , tho I do use the back of the axe to smash stuff when it needs doing ... not all jobs require a sharp edge

I use katana's in my training and my katanas occasionally kiss me ! (read light cut in to that statement) to remind me to keep my presence around me and respect the weapon I use. Running and walking draws are always difficult to perform and serious injury can occur, but fortuantely Ive survived so far LOL.

The biggest knife I mess with is a 24 inch Okapi Bush Knife , I dont do running or walking draws with it tho , iI dont even attack people with it , just weeds reeds bamboo and scrub , if Im not using it , it is strapped to my pack or in the car boot . the knife has a real severing ability tho just the same , I understand why they are used in conflicts in the African countries .

having it shaving sharp means it cuts easier and better , and I dont have to work so hard , also its a longer time between begin work and having to re-touch the edge than if it was a kinda dull edge to begin with .

It also means that I am VERY aware of what and where Im swinging it , the longer blades tend to jump around when you mess up your swing or it skips off what ever you are chopping into , I found Im WAY more careful now I been using the large ones than I ever was with the smaller bush knives .

in a survival situation , I realy dont want to have to be working extra hard and my "survival knives" are also my every day knives ... so it just makes sense , to me anyway , to have my gear in as ready condition as I reasonably can .
 
Mirror polished with 10,000 grit is probably going overboard for a survival knife, but you definately want it as sharp as you can get it (within reason). I learned when I was little that dull knives are dangerous, my brother had to get stitches from an unsharpened SAK (one of the itty-bitty ones) because he pushed too hard and it slipped.

And as others have said, edge geometry is important. You don't want to go start chopping with a fillet knife because it has a smaller angle on the blade. You should be fine if the knife is (well) designed for survival.


"He believes there is a bit of "micro-serration" going on with the larger grit stones"

Yep, that is called the 'toothiness' of the blade. There really are 'micro-serrations' from using a course stone which are polished away when using finer stones. Think about looking at a knife done with a course stone and one done with a few thousand grit stone under a microscope. Probably gunna be a difference, eh?

Cody

I definitely understand the theory of it - but I wonder whether the large grain structure gives "sharp" teeth or just beats on the edge a bit, and results in an overall less useful edge. My dad doesn't think so, but I guess it would just depend on how you were using the knife. A saw is about as toothy as it gets and it doesn't work well for cutting everything...but then a straight razor is about as polished as it gets, and it doesn't work well for cutting everything either.

I guess that's why I favour a good, medium grit stone for general duty. I can get stuff a lot sharper, of course...but is that useful?

I have a microscope lying around somewhere; maybe I should try looking at some 80, 200, and 400 grit edges. All I have ever looked at is about 2000 and up.
 
The knife should be sharp. Shaving sharp isn't absolutely necessary.... a knife that might be fine for most jobs may still not be able to cut hair with a light stroke. A knife with a sturdy edge can still be made shaving sharp.

To keep things as safe as possible I might consider:

- Having a knife that is the right size for the job. Generally you only need a small blade for many tasks. The longer the blade, the more of it you are exposed to, and the more difficult it is to use for small jobs. Plus you are likely to have greater difficulties with sheaths when the knife is big.
- Having a knife with only one side of the blade sharpened. If you have to stick it into an animal it should still do the job perfectly well without a dangerous sharp edge on the back.
- Having a knife with a handle and blade shape so distinctive that you can instantly tell which way the sharp edge is facing as you pick it up.
- Having a knife with a safe handle. A guard is not essential for safety, but the handle should not be slippery and should be comfortable. Guards can be a real nuisance on a working knife.
- Avoiding a knife where the blade is slightly wider than the handle and where the blade is sharpened right to the handle (like some cook's knives).
- Thinking carefully about how I use or sharpen the knife. I don't recall the details of all the self-inflicted cuts I've had, but generally I'd say they were the result of not thinking about what I was doing.
- Being very careful with knives which have a square back to the handle and which will lie on their back with the blade exposed upwards if you set them down on the ground. Somebody could step or sit on this blade.
- Having a secure sheath that was easy to get the knife in and out of. Like Normark's Concealex ones (as shown on a recent Bushman thread).
- Keeping a safe distance away from anybody else who is using a knife or any cutting tool.

I think that a general purpose knife for life in the bush doesn't need to have a blade longer than four inches. If you need to chop something, then maybe you could use a longer knife (or preferably an axe or machete...but you need to especially careful using these).

We use many things nowadays that can be dangerous if mishandled. If you remain aware of what is going on, you should be able to use a knife for years without any mishap.

The Scandinavians seem to have the wilderness knife business 'sussed'. Small knife with a sturdy handle and a sensible blade in a secure sheath.

I recently made a small knife for odd jobbing and skinning on the possum line. I use it to cut strips of NZ flax leaf which I use for holding snares and bait in place and maybe cutting the odd twig. It is also used as a spatula to spread paste lure on trees...plus it makes the few cuts necessary when a skin has to come off. The blade is 2.75 inches long, and it is 5.75 inches long over all. The sheath is simply a bit of soft polyethylene water pipe. I can get this knife in and out of the sheath with one hand, without having to think too hard. The sheath is easy to keep clean, and it is very solid. I heated the pipe in boiling water, then forced the knife into it. After it cooled, it retained its shape...and it holds the knife securely. The blade was ground from a bit of saw blade. I've started to carry around my new CS Finn Bear sometimes instead of this home-made tool because I want to play with the new knife. But the cheap DIY knife is fairly much ideal for its purpose and I will probably end up using it more than the Finn Bear for trapping because of its convenient size and practical sheath.
PossumKnife2.jpg

FurKnife0607.jpg
 
What kind of animal is that? :)

Looks like possum.

Coote, why not a blade thicker than the handle? I have a howling rat and love it. Can't see anything wrong with it other than it's not the best carver for wood or veggies where you need to make turns.
 
Animal is an Australian Brushtailed Opossum. They were introduced to NZ and they are well established here now.

When I mentioned being careful about the blade being wider than the handle, I was thinking of some knives where the blade is only a small bit wider than the handle, and where the blade has been sharpened right back to the handle. It is too easy to cut your forefinger on the sharp corner at the base of the blade. I've never seen a commercial belt knife with this problem, but knives may turn up like this from time to time. A lot of chef's knives have a blade that is wider than the handle, but mostly the blades are wide enough so that the blade base actually acts as a guard. But when the blade is ground to the stage where it is only a bit wider than the handle, it is time to be extra careful when you pick up the knife etc.

Some manufacturers sell knives like this, but they don't sharpen a small bottom portion of the blade...and this blunt area is a bit of a nuisance if you like to 'slice and dice' using the full length of the tool.

I've never seen a Howling Rat, but I get the idea that they are a popular knife. I must google the topic.
 
I just re-read my earlier post and I've started thinking about my posting style. I hope I don't come across as a self-appointed expert (or worse... :jerkit: .....) I just love raving on about the things I'm passionate about, and I hope to generate discussion by stating what I think. I'm merely a lad who loves spending time in the outdoors and who is seldom without some sort of a blade, and what I write is simply my two cents worth.

Ah... I just did an image search on 'howling rat'. So to clarify what I said about blades being dangerous when only slightly wider than the handle, I'm talking about plain handled knives that have no form of guard at all. Very nice knife that Howling Rat. Do they come with a sturdy sheath?
 
I just re-read my earlier post and I've started thinking about my posting style. I hope I don't come across as a self-appointed expert (or worse... :jerkit: .....) I just love raving on about the things I'm passionate about, and I hope to generate discussion by stating what I think. I'm merely a lad who loves spending time in the outdoors and who is seldom without some sort of a blade, and what I write is simply my two cents worth.

Ah... I just did an image search on 'howling rat'. So to clarify what I said about blades being dangerous when only slightly wider than the handle, I'm talking about plain handled knives that have no form of guard at all. Very nice knife that Howling Rat. Do they come with a sturdy sheath?
They offer some nice sheaths through the store but the makers are forum members here. :thumbup:
 
the day i leave the house and my kukri wont shave follow the herse to my funeral..... J/k ..... but i like all my knives sharp..
 
If it will grab your thumb nail and hold on, it's sharp enough to suit me.

Mhm, I've never been overly fussy about getting a shaving edge, though its nice on a large knife its not nessary, just having a good sharp polished edge will do me fine.
 
Is it possible, or rather is there anything wrong with varying the edge on a knife? For example sharpening the knife with a course stone and then only sharpen from the tip to half way down the blade with a finer stone. In this way a cutting edge with micro serations could be acheived closer to the hilt and a chopping perhaps razor egded blade could be acheived futher up the blade.
 
Is it possible, or rather is there anything wrong with varying the edge on a knife? For example sharpening the knife with a course stone and then only sharpen from the tip to half way down the blade with a finer stone. In this way a cutting edge with micro serations could be acheived closer to the hilt and a chopping perhaps razor egded blade could be acheived futher up the blade.

Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, I've seen that very combination advocated by some folks (I can't remember who). It's also (IMO) a good idea to keep the edge on the point of a general purpose knife a little less fine than the rest of the blade, since too thin an edge on the point can weaken it.

Joe Talmadge put together a really great FAQ on sharpening knives. I haven't seen it mentioned on this thread, so: http://www.knifeart.com/sharfaqbyjoe.html
 
I have found that a more polished, razor sharp edge stays that way for far longer than a toothy razor sharp edge.

I don't leave home without my EDCs or other knives razor sharp. As someone already stated, a knife is easier to use and easier to respect when sharp. Knives also do not become sharper with use. ;)

David
 
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