Shear Steel?

IIRC correctly shear steel is made by shearing and stacking blister steel and welding it up, double shear steel is welded twice and triple is three times, so you start loosing the banding effect.

I have run across that pattern in old 30" to 36" blades I bought from a junk store. I didn't think they were so old as a 100 yrs.
But you know what, if the stuff was laying around in a warehouse somwheres it probably got made up into blades.
 
i'm not saying everyone here is wrong about "shear steel" ,but it appears the timelines for actual converted blister steel are being forgotten. it also appears that people have not taken into account the variance of language for the last 200+ years. you can buy "shear" steel today,but the terminology refers to shear strength or metal/paper cutting shears,not how the material was processed. :)
 
Ray - It's Joseph Elliott & Sons of Sheffield, England - they have been manufacturing knives since 1795 and as of 1996 were still in business.

Dan aka Shakudo - what dates are you working with?
From my research English makers at least, used shear steel for making edged tools and weapons from the 18th century on up until at least the second half of the 19th century, although one only has to look at the quantities listed to see that it was NOT the primary steel of the era - cast/crucible steel was by all accounts the major source for higher quality steel at least until the Bessemer process was perfected post 1855 the year it was patented - blister steel of course continued to be made and sold as well. By all accounts I've read there was overlap in the product time lines, but by the late 19th century shear steel was pretty much a thing of the past.

a little note:
"A blacksmith named Newton, at LaPointe Wisconsin in 1836 complained that it was impossible to warrant the half axes and tomahawks because of the blister steel being so bad." He requested that CAST steel (aka steel made via the Huntsman crucible process) be sent....note he did not ask for shear steel. Remember shear steel production even at it's heighth of use was only about 200 tons where as it's cousin cast steel was over 20,000 tons a year - a major difference.
 
That was the point I was driving at.Shear steel was used for blades and cutting tools.It was not (generally) used to make large items like saw blades as far as I have ever read.
Stacy
 
I was reading through the sweddish foundry page and found this


PHP: 
 One of these places was the Björneborg Works, which
were erected during the years 1659-1661, where the idyllic river Visman leaves Lake
Vismen. The founder of the Works was 0. P. Jernfelt, burgomaster or mayor of the
neighbouring town of Christinehamn. As regards the origin of the name of the Works
(Björn = Bear, Borg - Castle) there is an old fanstatic tale, according to which, shortly after the founding of the Works a bear while pursueing a cow entered the forge and was killed while wrestling with the bar-iron hammer.
 
Chuck, right now i'm just trying to remember things off the top of my head.computer power supply blew up not long ago and did strange things to the computer.luckly important data was on disk and other computer.post civil war era the states were producing most of the worlds supply of steel,of course blister and shear steel were being produced,old habits and technology tend to linger.sheffield really didn't want the newer methods to start with,but they kept it afterward for some time. the question is,...is the saw blade shear steel or the dregs of a questionable batch of cast steel? i believe even today people are getting screw shapes and who knows what from modern alloys ?1080 from some suppliers.
 
I sent a piece of saw steel to Achim, a German friend of mine to get analized but it could be a month or two before he has it done. As far a forging it its totally different compaired to modern saw steels and I've forged several different types. I guess compairing it to one thing it reminds me more of forging wrought iron. It doesn't fall apart but it does kind of crinkle. Wish I could come up with a better word than crinkle. I'm leaving tomorrow morning for the OKCA Show. I'll see Wayne Goddard there and spend part of Monday at his place so I'll be sure to ask him somemore questions on the shear steel. I could have sworn I ran accross a link in the past on shear steel and I believe it said the steel was made mainly for knives and saw blades. Now I'm wondering if it was just my imagination......
 
Dan - the reason I asked is I've got dates for England and the US anyway down to 1887 or so - as you said the English were a slow lot to change - in fact they didn't care for the cast steel because it was harder to work with than the cast.

I could have sworn I ran accross a link in the past on shear steel and I believe it said the steel was made mainly for knives and saw blades. Now I'm wondering if it was just my imagination......
Click to expand...
No not imagining things but more than likely it was fine quality handsaw blades they were talking about, which were definitely made from shear in it's various forms. While there is always a possibility that it was shear steel (I don't believe in absolutes - they'll bite you in the behind everytime :footinmou ), I'm thinking like Dan that it may very well be cast/crucible steel - note the almost wootz like pattern which is also a "cast" steel. It may also have undergone some changes at various leverls due to time and being underwater.

FWIW - Ray I've been studying the steels of the 18th & 19th century for over thirty years - I don't claim to be the final expert for sure - so I do know a "bit" about it.
Bottomline - does it really matter? Without some kind of definitive metallurgical test there's no 100% absolute way of knowing - but so what - The "coolness" factor aka uniqueness aka beauty of the knives/hawks you've made from that steel is indisputable so what, other than wanting to know, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things......
 
Chuck, Your right! I have really felt blessed to find that rusty old piece of saw steel what ever the heck it is. I also feel I'll never find anything like it again but I have sure enjoyed the hunt. Lets put it this way "I am now saw steel rich".
 
i have liked the steel that Ray has shown.i have been looking for at least 2 years for something with a nice pattern for my special personal silver handled cartouche folder that the period correct police can't say didn't exist in 1800.it will interesting to see what the results of the metal test have to say. i have been called several things whenever i mention damascus in context with 18th century America.
 
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