Sheath making sigh

Thanks for your help with this. Gives me a lot of things to think about that I didn’t realized needed attention. I’ve struggled with a couple other sheaths with the glue seen as well so I’m hoping it was the glue job and/or my technique. I never was happy with the tanner bond cement for some reason, wether it be the can style with brush on the lid, how it was so thick and tack, or how it never really seemed to soak into the leather..

I’m going to remake this sheath within the next day or two and really take my time following your tutorials and tips here! I’ll have to come back and see what you think!

Again thanks!
 
Something I forgot to mention in the technique section. Certain leathers need to be roughed up to get a good glue bond They make special tools for that but I use that same rat tail file.
 
Horsewright said:
Something I forgot to mention in the technique section. Certain leathers need to be roughed up to get a good glue bond They make special tools for that but I use that same rat tail file.
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Thanks! I did find that out by trial and error haha. I now scratch the area up well with a razor or an awl.
 
Yeah try the rat tail ya can get a lot done quickly. I did two big belts and their linings yesterday in just a minute or two.
 
I’m thinking I have a bad piece of leather?? I made the sheath again, after cutting it out and dyeing I let the dye dry overnight. I then put pure neatsfoot oil all over the outside of the sheath and a little on the inside except where the glue goes. I then glued the welt up, wet the center of the sheath and folded/glued. It sat on the workbench from last night to this morning and now has cracks where the spine is.. apparently it wasn’t because of the oven temps.. also this was the first time I oiled the sheath after dye, from watching Ian Atkinson who seems to know what he’s doing as well.

 
Not sure if this helps but i found that overwetting leather and or too much dye it will turn into jerky and crack along the bend line or stress points where it may be too tight on the knife. Thats one of the reasons i like predyed leather. Dont give up !!

John
 
That is a rather large crack there! wow. Yea, you just might have a leather problem. A good test would be to take a scrap piece that has not been worked yet and fold it as tight as you can. Lets see how it does.
 
Aaagh I’ll try that! This is the first time I’ve had an issue.. I still have some leather remains from previous projects too so I’ll do tests with that in comparison. It’s just this double shoulder batch doing this to me..
 
Might have to go old school if you want to use up the rest of that leather. Might be worth a try. Cut out a piece larger than your sheath. Put the leather in water in the sink or bath tub till bubbles stop coming out of the leather. Wrap in a towel or a wool blanket pretty well, no leather exposed. Leave overnight. This is called casing. The next day your leather will be very pliable almost plastique. Trim your sheath to size, then fold and shape your sheath. I'd be pretty certain your leather will not crack now. You can fit welts now and handsew up the sheath. If you are machine sewing I'd allow the leather to dry first and then sew. Wet mold to knife if necessary if you had to let dry. If you hand sewed ya can still mold the leather to your sheath after sewing while the leather is still cased. Then dry the sheath. I would dye the sheath after it is dry. Then a light coat of oil wiping any excess off with a paper towel. Then a light coat of a cream conditioner light Oakwood or Skidmores, again wiping off any excess right away. Let dry a little and then apply finish. What dye are you using? I really hate dyeing leather. I've found that a sheath dyed has about half the life span of a sheath not dyed and just oiled. Saw this too many times with sheaths. Same owner, same rough ranching conditions, just used and abused. A dyed sheath will crack and the oiled sheath will look like it has been drug behind the truck across the desert but its not cracked. Saw this many times so I quit dyeing sheaths after the first three or four thousand. So there are lots of my old dyed sheaths out there being used. Every once in a while I'll get a knife and sheath back for a new sheath and most of the time those old dyed ones are cracked. Yet I've seen one that was worn so much and so hard that the belt had literally worn through the leather and into the sheath cavity. Yet the leather was still good not cracked, the sheath was undyed. Makes a believer out of ya after a while.

Nuther reason I don't like dyeing is dye transfer. Ya think ya got it all sealed up good and then your customer wears his black sheath with a white shirt or on a pair of chinos. Aww not so good. Right now I have three finished holsters sitting over on a corner of the bench. After two shows and living in a container (like all our other In Stock items) in side the house I can't sell these holsters. How come? After kicking around to the two shows and living with a black dyed holster in the container they have dye transfer on them. Can't sell em anymore. Black spots right in the middle of the front of the holsters. One had a dye transfer spot on the back and I just gave that one to a friend. I hate dyeing leather. As C camaroless said pre dyed leather by the tannery is the way to go.

So in your latest attempt there I think it was order of events that caused your crack. The dye just made it worse. Try it how I out lined above and I think ya'll be ok. Even hating dyeing like I do last batch of 70 I got talked into dyeing 4. Bah Humbug.
 
Horsewright said:
Might have to go old school if you want to use up the rest of that leather. Might be worth a try. Cut out a piece larger than your sheath. Put the leather in water in the sink or bath tub till bubbles stop coming out of the leather. Wrap in a towel or a wool blanket pretty well, no leather exposed. Leave overnight. This is called casing. The next day your leather will be very pliable almost plastique. Trim your sheath to size, then fold and shape your sheath. I'd be pretty certain your leather will not crack now. You can fit welts now and handsew up the sheath. If you are machine sewing I'd allow the leather to dry first and then sew. Wet mold to knife if necessary if you had to let dry. If you hand sewed ya can still mold the leather to your sheath after sewing while the leather is still cased. Then dry the sheath. I would dye the sheath after it is dry. Then a light coat of oil wiping any excess off with a paper towel. Then a light coat of a cream conditioner light Oakwood or Skidmores, again wiping off any excess right away. Let dry a little and then apply finish. What dye are you using? I really hate dyeing leather. I've found that a sheath dyed has about half the life span of a sheath not dyed and just oiled. Saw this too many times with sheaths. Same owner, same rough ranching conditions, just used and abused. A dyed sheath will crack and the oiled sheath will look like it has been drug behind the truck across the desert but its not cracked. Saw this many times so I quit dyeing sheaths after the first three or four thousand. So there are lots of my old dyed sheaths out there being used. Every once in a while I'll get a knife and sheath back for a new sheath and most of the time those old dyed ones are cracked. Yet I've seen one that was worn so much and so hard that the belt had literally worn through the leather and into the sheath cavity. Yet the leather was still good not cracked, the sheath was undyed. Makes a believer out of ya after a while.

Nuther reason I don't like dyeing is dye transfer. Ya think ya got it all sealed up good and then your customer wears his black sheath with a white shirt or on a pair of chinos. Aww not so good. Right now I have three finished holsters sitting over on a corner of the bench. After two shows and living in a container (like all our other In Stock items) in side the house I can't sell these holsters. How come? After kicking around to the two shows and living with a black dyed holster in the container they have dye transfer on them. Can't sell em anymore. Black spots right in the middle of the front of the holsters. One had a dye transfer spot on the back and I just gave that one to a friend. I hate dyeing leather. As C camaroless said pre dyed leather by the tannery is the way to go.

So in your latest attempt there I think it was order of events that caused your crack. The dye just made it worse. Try it how I out lined above and I think ya'll be ok. Even hating dyeing like I do last batch of 70 I got talked into dyeing 4. Bah Humbug.
Click to expand...

Yeah I realized the leather was very hard after dyeing.. I also am done with dye after this one! As you mentioned I’ve notice dye transfer also and no longer want to risk it. The dye I’m using is fiebings leather dye, also tried their pro dye. I’ll give your tip a try tonight and see what happens!
 
Yeah casing will get your sheath folded without cracking I'm pretty sure. Wait for all the bubbles. Let me know how it goes.
 
I got 3 test pieces going. 2 of them are cased the old way, one of those 2 is pre dyed the other not. The third test piece is a non dyed wet folded like I have been doing (except not dyed).. will see how they turn out once dried
 
Alright, 3 test pieces are dry. The results: the dyed piece is the only one I can get to crack like my previous pictures.. it took no effort to get it to crack. The dyed piece is also by far the stiffest of the three. The other plain veg tan wet folded pieces I can flex and bend fairly easy and no signs at all of cracking..

So I guess my next step is as Horsewright mentioned and wet mold the leather as is then dye afterwords! sheesh this has turned into an event haha.
 
Ah hah! Issue solved!

I was thinking last night about the process of wet molding and I always dye after the leather is molded and dry. Using pro dye for saddle tan and regular dye (with neatsfoot mixed in the brown for extra penetration and to retard the drying time) for the darker colors.
 
Haha just seems weird this is the first time it’s been an issue.. must be a more sensitive hide..?
 
Good deal glad that worked out and got it figured. Play with enough dead cow and you are gonna find some variations even with in leather by the same tannery. Just is. Cool experiment.
 
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