Shelters

Shelters are vastly overrated, that's what I say. No, I'm serious. Sure, in some cases they may be lifesavers. But in those cases, you've already screwed up, big time. If you've really brought the clothes you should have brought, then you won't even need any shelter or even a fire, except for hurricanes and such lovely surprises, in which case a debris shelter is pretty unlikely to help you. To find reasonable shelter in northern forests, there is no need for chopping stuff apart. Finding a decent shelter under low-hanging branches is typically very easy, and with minimal work that can be done without any tools save your two hands, can be turned into a pretty damn windproof and waterproof shelter from the elements. One doesn't need chainsaws or even big chopping knives for shelter building. Actually, not even any knives. And as said, shelter building should be unnecessary in the first place unless you've screwed up. Don't screw up. But yeah, it's certainly good to practice all kinds of stuff in case you do screw up. In those cases, on the other hand, it's particularly important to consider one's actions carefully. Not much point in wasting time and energy on building a huge and cumbersome shelter when near equal or even better shelter could be found with much less work and risk of injury.
 
My point is that too many people here seem to be wasting resources so they can do something they will likely never have to do if they were prepared in the first place. I didn't say one shouldn't know how. I also said I built one once too. But going into the woods repeatedly and destroying trees so you can post pictures on an internet forum (and I'm not pointing fingers at sicily/Bryan who points out that the photo of the shelter he built is on a private woodlot that may be cleared anyway) is kinda dumb IMO.

The point is (and I know this is a blade oriented forum) you shouldn't need to be chopping down everything in sight everytime you go out into the woods. Protect our natural resources!

CSG, speaking as a rightwinger conservationist! ;)
 
Elen said:
Shelters are vastly overrated, that's what I say. No, I'm serious. Sure, in some cases they may be lifesavers. But in those cases, you've already screwed up, big time. If you've really brought the clothes you should have brought, then you won't even need any shelter or even a fire, except for hurricanes and such lovely surprises, in which case a debris shelter is pretty unlikely to help you. To find reasonable shelter in northern forests, there is no need for chopping stuff apart. Finding a decent shelter under low-hanging branches is typically very easy, and with minimal work that can be done without any tools save your two hands, can be turned into a pretty damn windproof and waterproof shelter from the elements. One doesn't need chainsaws or even big chopping knives for shelter building. Actually, not even any knives. And as said, shelter building should be unnecessary in the first place unless you've screwed up. Don't screw up. But yeah, it's certainly good to practice all kinds of stuff in case you do screw up. In those cases, on the other hand, it's particularly important to consider one's actions carefully. Not much point in wasting time and energy on building a huge and cumbersome shelter when near equal or even better shelter could be found with much less work and risk of injury.
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its snow and rains my friend and in my opinion if you were in teh wilderness shelter would be a nice idea ;) assuming you like to camp without a tent
 
Elen said:
Shelters are vastly overrated, that's what I say. No, I'm serious. Sure, in some cases they may be lifesavers. But in those cases, you've already screwed up, big time. If you've really brought the clothes you should have brought, then you won't even need any shelter or even a fire, except for hurricanes and such lovely surprises, in which case a debris shelter is pretty unlikely to help you. To find reasonable shelter in northern forests, there is no need for chopping stuff apart. Finding a decent shelter under low-hanging branches is typically very easy, and with minimal work that can be done without any tools save your two hands, can be turned into a pretty damn windproof and waterproof shelter from the elements. One doesn't need chainsaws or even big chopping knives for shelter building. Actually, not even any knives. And as said, shelter building should be unnecessary in the first place unless you've screwed up. Don't screw up. But yeah, it's certainly good to practice all kinds of stuff in case you do screw up. In those cases, on the other hand, it's particularly important to consider one's actions carefully. Not much point in wasting time and energy on building a huge and cumbersome shelter when near equal or even better shelter could be found with much less work and risk of injury.
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One could lump together everything that keeps you 98.6 as "shelter." Proper clothing is surely a GOOD IDEA.

Beyond that:

1) The Faith of Murphy apparently has not reached Finland.
2) We don't all live in the arborial forest regions.
3) Discussing shelter is not restricted to discussing the uses of "big chopping knives." Many times, shelters can be made without any knife. In fact, you said that, Elen. :thumbup:
4) It may not be you who "screwed up, big time." Or it might be. :D
5) What's wrong with knowing something you only may need?
 
Elen, reading your post sounds like you live somewhere hot with no snow and little rain, but how do you go about with no shelter in Finland? :D
 
Thomas Linton said:
One could lump together everything that keeps you 98.6 as "shelter." Proper clothing is surely a GOOD IDEA.

Beyond that:

1) The Faith of Murphy apparently has not reached Finland.
2) We don't all live in the arborial forest regions.
3) Discussing shelter is not restricted to discussing the uses of "big chopping knives." Many times, shelters can be made without any knife. In fact, you said that, Elen. :thumbup:
4) It may not be you who "screwed up, big time." Or it might be. :D
5) What's wrong with knowing something you only may need?
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Yeah, I think so. But in this case, I was referring to the type of shelter most commonly (it seems) discussed here: the Let's Chop Things Up type of shelter. I'm thinking proper clothing should be the very basis - if you haven't got it, then you're going to need a pretty damn good shelter to survive in some conditions.

1) Oh, it has, it's just that if you get struck by ill fortune so serious you need to build branch huts, you're also pretty likely to chop off your own limbs due to bad luck while trying said task.

2) Maybe we should. Less venomous snakes and lions here. :D

3) True that. It seems to me, though, that when most people on the forums say shelter they refer to a relatively huge construction project involving chopping down a lot of stuff instead of using the environment the easy and efficient way.

4) That's certainly true.

5) Nothing, of course. Still, efficiency is a good thing. I'd hate to see anyone die in a survival situation because they were tired and decided to build a totally unnecessary superduper shelter for themselves and ended up chopping their legs off or wasting all their strength on work that was unnecessary in the first place.


Keith_H said:
Elen, reading your post sounds like you live somewhere hot with no snow and little rain, but how do you go about with no shelter in Finland? :D
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I wear clothes. Well, most of the time. :o
 
This is from one of my first posts a while back, so I thought it would do some good to bring back up where this forum is going...

Quote from me:

You can't go out in the wilderness and not tear the shit out of some brush. Beef...If I knew you personally I would be ashamed to hear you say that, "you can simply go around it." That is crazy talk, when man wants meat, he GETS HIS MEAT, not chicken. So you can't expect to go out in the wilderness with brand new equipment and not use it, come on, that is just about the one or two times a year that poor tool (knife, saw, etc...) will ever get to be used. It can't get used by going around the damn brush. I won't have that, when man built the rail road did he go around the mountains because it was easier?....HELL NO!!! He blasted a Fuc***g hole in it and went through the damn mountain just so he could play with his brand new dynamite! So go around the brush? I don't think so and neither does my machette or camping axe!


(I'm not really angry, just put some stuff in for special effects, but you get my point)

I do save as much forestry as I can, but come on, a once in a lifetime shelter won't hurt....much. ;)
 
batosai117 said:
I do save as much forestry as I can, but come on, a once in a lifetime shelter won't hurt....much. ;)
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If everyone that goes out into the woods does it, even once, it will hurt. I have been to many, many popular camping spots where you can't find a stick of down wood, not even a twig. Many other spots people have started cutting live trees, I can't stand to see trees hacked off waist high.

Buy a 4 dollar pvc poncho and a cheap painters drop cloth and save some trees. I don't think this is a skill you need to pratice enough to sacrifice cutting live trees. Unlike friction fire and some other skills, building a shelter with natural materials IMO is not enough different than building one with manmade to make a difference. If there is enough down wood and leaf litter and you want to pratice go for it, if it involves cutting live trees, I say don't do it.

Bring out the flame throwers. :( Chris
 
runningboar said:
If everyone that goes out into the woods does it, even once, it will hurt. I have been to many, many popular camping spots where you can't find a stick of down wood, not even a twig. Many other spots people have started cutting live trees, I can't stand to see trees hacked off waist high.

Buy a 4 dollar pvc poncho and a cheap painters drop cloth and save some trees. I don't think this is a skill you need to pratice enough to sacrifice cutting live trees. Unlike friction fire and some other skills, building a shelter with natural materials IMO is not enough different than building one with manmade to make a difference. If there is enough down wood and leaf litter and you want to pratice go for it, if it involves cutting live trees, I say don't do it.

Bring out the flame throwers. :( Chris
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That was more of a joke than anything. I agree with you and I always pack a tent. I've never made a shelter out of anything live, just dead brush and it was just something to show my GF's cousins how to make a shelter on their ranch.
 
Thanks runningboar, you get it. This isn't 200 years ago. Travel around this country sometime and look how much we've changed the landscape to suit our purposes. It's a damn shame to see so many camping areas ruined by thoughtless users who think they're mountainmen.
 
I had so much to say but i decided against it...

I will say I can build a shelter without cutting down a tree.

People building shelters are at the very bottom of the list for reasons for habitat loss and destruction. Where I live, nobody uses these methods in place of a tarp or tent. Nobody thinks they are mountain men.

But we do practice these skills, if we dont how will they survive?

I wish you could see the sub arctic forest of the canadian shield. I also wish you would consider not using any paper products as part of your conservation efforts instead of blasting people who are demonstrating survival techniques on internet forums.
 
Not everyone is from Canada where the entire country's population isn't as large as just California's. You are missing the point completely.
 
It is a good bet that your house is framed out of pine. It is a good bet that your kitchen table and chairs are made out of wood.

All made from trees that were clear cut to suit your needs.

It is not fair to say everyone chops down everything in sight every time they go into the woods.
 
I don't hack down everything I see, but passing down shelter building is essential for the "skill" to survive. Plus, dead stuff is a lot easier to work with, and a tent is even Easier :D which is what I take.
 
I am from GA and I live in NC not Canada, shelters aren't at the top of my priority list for survival, I did not "blast" anybody.

Name one survival situation not including TEOTWAWKI or alien/zombie invasion that you would need to fabricate a shelter from natural materials. Do you routinely go into the backwoods with just your cutting tools and nothing else, no, I didn't think so. I have a space planket, poncho, or dropcloth in every pack, I bet you do too.

Car breakdown, you have shelter and shelter material if you decide to strip the car, plane crash same thing, I am at a total loss, I can't think of a single situation I would be in the deep woods that unprepared......unless maybe you do it on purpose just to see if you can. :rolleyes:
 
runningboar said:
I am from GA and I live in NC not Canada, shelters aren't at the top of my priority list for survival, I did not "blast" anybody.

Name one survival situation not including TEOTWAWKI or alien/zombie invasion that you would need to fabricate a shelter from natural materiels. Do you routinely go into the backwoods with just your cutting tools and nothing else, no, I didn't think so. I have a space planket, poncho, or dropcloth in every pack, I bet you do too.

Car breakdown, you have shelter and shelter material if you decide to strip the car, plane crash same thing, I am at a total loss, I can't think of a single situation I would be in the deep woods that unprepared......unless maybe you do it on purpose just to see if you can. :rolleyes:
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LMAO!!! Very true, but I would HAVE to build a shelter from pure nature if "RED DAWN" happened :D.
 
Ottoshot, you are continuing to miss the point. Building homes and furniture from wood is nothing at all like those who would start whacking limbs or trees down so they can make an overnight shelter only to abandon it within a day or two. Get serious and try not to be obtuse.
 
CSG said:
Not everyone is from Canada where the entire country's population isn't as large as just California's. You are missing the point completely.
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We no longer live in a world where such an observation is entirely relevant. Millions of acres of Canadian woods are clearcut to send off to the US, China, Japan.

It is sometimes hard, as I have observed here before, to find ways to practice building "brush" shelters. In terms of cutting down living trees/brush, the best I have been able to find are properties about to be bulldozed for "development" and areas of brush that the owner wants cleared.

In the Fall, dried leaves can be used for much of the bulk with branches/cordage to help hold them in place.

If you have access to lots of grass, you can thatch the roof/sides of a shelter (but very time-consuming).

Snow can be made into walls or can insulate a tarp or sparce structure.

But building shelters is only part of getting shelter. A dense spruce tree will stay dry underneath in all but the hardest rains and is pretty much proof against falling snow. A ridge of rock protects from wind. Just getting in dense woods cuts down on wind.

Some of my favorite places as a kid were ruined by people making "brouse beds" - every branch stripped from evergreens up to ten feet -- or more -- off the ground. Nations that used to be covered with trees are just thin soil and thin grasses now. If you care about the wilderness, you should conserve and recycle.

I just think that because life may be at stake, you need the knowhow to get shelter.
 
I want to add that my comments in this thread are from viewing pretty much the entire content of this forum over the past month. I like blades of different sorts as much as the next guy but it seems that a great number of people here equate blade ownership, especially large blades, to somehow conquering the wilderness by chopping down everything in sight. We don't know the age or experience of most posters (I'm in my 50's and have been doing this stuff for a half century) or even where they live. My guess and opinion is that many people here are making up for something "lacking" elsewhere and/or have very few true outdoor skills.
 
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