Ship Knife to NYC...private to private party????? HELP

actionjackson1

Basic Member
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Dec 29, 2010
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Hi ,I need some quick help,as I don't have time to do searches. I'm going to sell a Lone Wolf T3 to fella in Jamaica,NY. He says its NYC ...This is a folder with almost 5" blade. I have heard of rumblings going on in NY,but I don't know the facts.

Can I legally send him life with no issues.??? Please help with the facts,as I know he wants it a lot.
Thanks so much
Bud
 
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Are you living in a bubble? Send the knife for christ sakes. Just use insurance and delivery confirmation and your fine like any other state in AMERICA. Your reading too much into the propaganda. Yeh, there are some bogus laws going on, but comon. trust me when I tell you- mailman in the NYC area are more worried about anthrax again and other terrorist based stuff and the millions of dollars of Rx being sent from overseas. Dont be a cheapo and use insurance and delivery confirm and your golden man.
 
The laws of NYC do not apply to the citizens of the state of Michigan.
 
CR33...Hey man Im not in a bubble thats why Im asking...Nowadays we cant assume all will be ok.Yeah theres lots of silly laws on the books and many dont get enforced,here or there. But Im asking as to not get me or especially the other fella in hot water. Again,Im ignorant to any other laws other than ours. We have it pretty good here.I always ship with tracking and insurance,but not sure how that helps if someone is requesting me to send a knife that just aint allowed in his home state.Were all on the same side here..
Are you living in a bubble? Send the knife for christ sakes. Just use insurance and delivery confirmation and your fine like any other state in AMERICA. Your reading too much into the propaganda. Yeh, there are some bogus laws going on, but comon. trust me when I tell you- mailman in the NYC area are more worried about anthrax again and other terrorist based stuff and the millions of dollars of Rx being sent from overseas. Dont be a cheapo and use insurance and delivery confirm and your golden man.
 
Bryan J,give me some thing better than that.. why do it if it maybe have potential to get the other fella in trouble. Like I said,Im not sure whats going on in NYC,likely someone just tryig to make a name for themselves...but I sure dont want to be involved...The fella wanting knife says he's in NYC, he mentioned "yeah I have heard some issues going on,but the cops never bother me when Im carrying my folders". But that doesnt tell me its legal. Im not trying to be perfect here,as heaven knows we have all made mistakes likely when shipping. **Besides possible ignorance accorrding to some,why then do some sellers on the sale forum even says no sales to NYC.I havent see it today,but it has been on a post or two.***
The laws of NYC do not apply to the citizens of the state of Michigan.
 
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In NYC it illegal to sell locking folders with a blade 4" or longer. Any knife that can be flicked open with wrist action is illegal by NY State Law ( a gravity knofe), but this is almost only enforced this way in NYC. Jamica is in Queens and is a part of NYC. The Manhattan DA has already gone after one on line dealer with both criminal and civil actions, and the State AG has successfully sued on line dealers over the years ( most noteably BudK). There is a very slight chance that you would get in trouble. If the knife can not be flicked open and does not lock then you are with in the law. As I always say, you are responsible for your actions, and never listen to those who don't know the law, or just tell you to go ahead and do what ever you want. Those guys won't be there paying for your lawyers or visiting you in jail, and will most likely say "well I can believe that guy got in trouble for that".....
 
Hi Tom, thank you for chiming in.This was the exact info I'm looking for.It's still a bit fuzzy,ad can one own a blade that's more than 4" ,but cannot use it all or carry it. Also some might be stronger than others to make a folder flip open by one hand.I'm with you Tom,I think we know this one might be better not to persue. Anymore info would be appreciated.Pm would be great..Bud
In NYC it illegal to sell locking folders with a blade 4" or longer. Any knife that can be flicked open with wrist action is illegal by NY State Law ( a gravity knofe), but this is almost only enforced this way in NYC. Jamica is in Queens and is a part of NYC. The Manhattan DA has already gone after one on line dealer with both criminal and civil actions, and the State AG has successfully sued on line dealers over the years ( most noteably BudK). There is a very slight chance that you would get in trouble. If the knife can not be flicked open and does not lock then you are with in the law. As I always say, you are responsible for your actions, and never listen to those who don't know the law, or just tell you to go ahead and do what ever you want. Those guys won't be there paying for your lawyers or visiting you in jail, and will most likely say "well I can believe that guy got in trouble for that".....
 
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You can own one with a 4" or larger balde that locks ( but it can not be flickable). You can only carry it under certain circumstances. The NYC Administration code governs the blade lenght and sale in NYC ( NYC Admin code 10-133 & 10-134), and the NYS Penal Law bans the sale and general possession of "gravity knives" NYS PL 265.00 & 265.01......if the blade has an adjustable pivot then you can tighten it. If it is pinned, then you could lightly peen it tight so it can't flick. I am not familiar with this model itself...
 
Tom, the blade is just under 5" and does have adjustable pivot.In the rite hands maybe flickable and it does lock. Of course the design of blade has false edge on top too..All this being said,are we still concerned w NYS and or NYC?
You can own one with a 4" or larger balde that locks ( but it can not be flickable). You can only carry it under certain circumstances. The NYC Administration code governs the blade lenght and sale in NYC ( NYC Admin code 10-133 & 10-134), and the NYS Penal Law bans the sale and general possession of "gravity knives" NYS PL 265.00 & 265.01......if the blade has an adjustable pivot then you can tighten it. If it is pinned, then you could lightly peen it tight so it can't flick. I am not familiar with this model itself...
 
Well the knife as descibed has elements of what some consider a "gravity knife" ( and courts have upheld), and it exceeds the blade lenght for the sale of a locking folder. In the strictest enforcement of the law, it is illegal to sell in NYC, and therefore is also a crime to send there. I can only tell you that if you send it there you are at risk of violateing the city and state law, and the earlier posters are not correct by saying the NY laws don't apply to you. They do if you send it there. In the end, it is your choice of course.
 
In the strictest enforcement of the law, it is illegal to sell in NYC, and therefore is also a crime to send there.

This is a non sequitur.

I can only tell you that if you send it there you are at risk of violateing the city and state law, and the earlier posters are not correct by saying the NY laws don't apply to you.

Following your logic, the speed limit in NYC would also apply to those driving down Michigan roads.
 
This is a non sequitur.



Following your logic, the speed limit in NYC would also apply to those driving down Michigan roads.

Bryan,
Before being argumentative for the sake of it. It might be a good idea to check facts/reality.
Google "NYS Long Arm Statutes".
Tom gives spot on answers on this matter, because he knows the law intimately, being a former LEO and Present Knife Knut. He is one of the most Level headed LEO's i know of and this state sorely needs more like him on active duty, especially in the city.
What are your credentials?
Chance are, If the OP sends that particular knife into Jamaica Queens and the Buyer gets caught with it, the buyer will be prosecuted and if he divulges where he bought it, the OP could potentially be prosecuted under NYS law by the Long Arm statutes. This is why so many companies are refusing to ship here.
 
This is a non sequitur.



Following your logic, the speed limit in NYC would also apply to those driving down Michigan roads.

With all due respect you are completely wrong. Also an FYI: I've been following a lot of posts on this sub-forum, you won't find anyone on this forum better versed in the NY laws than Tom.
 
Bryan,
Before being argumentative for the sake of it. It might be a good idea to check facts/reality.
Google "NYS Long Arm Statutes".
Tom gives spot on answers on this matter, because he knows the law intimately, being a former LEO and Present Knife Knut. He is one of the most Level headed LEO's i know of and this state sorely needs more like him on active duty, especially in the city.
What are your credentials?
Chance are, If the OP sends that particular knife into Jamaica Queens and the Buyer gets caught with it, the buyer will be prosecuted and if he divulges where he bought it, the OP could potentially be prosecuted under NYS law by the Long Arm statutes. This is why so many companies are refusing to ship here.

I'm willing to believe that Tom is all that you say he is and more, but the sentence he wrote is a non sequitur. That is, it does not simply follow from the fact that it is illegal to sell a particular knife in NYC that it "therefore" is a crime to ship it there. I'd like to hear the complete chain of reasoning linking the premise to said conclusion, as this is a complicated legal issue. I am completely open-minded about this. Explain the rationale or show me the specific case where a state prosecuted a non-resident over an internet sale.

Long-Arm statutes do not simply give states jurisdiction over every non-resident who sells a defective/harm-causing item to a customer within its jurisdiction. In some cases it does, in others it doesn't--specific legal criteria must be met that establish that the seller has a certain "minimal contacts" with the prosecuting state. Does a private sale between a resident and non-resident which occurred over the internet meet this criteria? I don't claim to know for sure, but I haven't seen any evidence that it does. If you or Tom or anyone knows of such evidence, kindly let us know. I would be interested in checking it out.

I certainly agree that the buyer would breaking the law by taking possession of a banned item, but on the question of whether the seller is taking a risk I remain skeptical. I can also think of a slew of reasons why knife businesses would stop shipping to NYC, but many of those are tangential to the issue here which is whether a non-resident could actually be prosecuted for the action in question, I'll remain skeptical until I come across a sound chain of reasoning or see a real-world case.

What kind of credentials do I need here? I have a PhD in a physical science...does that count for anything?
 
HI..FIRST THANK YOU TO ALL...it was good information on the laws.None of us are arguing that. Based on what Toms is stating,it's a logical move to avoid this transaction. After I spoke to the potential buyer ,he was very understanding and thankful for the information. Even if someone else interprets what has been stated by Tom, why not error on the side of caution :-) This was a no brainer for me and Im glad I took the time to ask. I know I learn some good information..and so did a fella living among these crazy restrictions.
Cheers to all and thanks again
Bud
 
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Once you send an item into a state via a sale that the transaction ends in that state ( ie point of delivery), the seller has exposed himself to the laws of the known final destination of that sales transaction. If you read any major gun supply dealer, you will clearly see they have many restrcitions on where they will send certain items ( ie clips that hold more than 10 rounds). Knife laws have rarely been enforced to this level, but they can be, and in the case of the Manhattan DA, he has already gone after one dealer in a state on the West coast for delivering gravity knives to one of his straw buyers. That dealer has already several thousands of dollars defending himself against these charges. As stated above, the former NYS AG went after BudK ( a out of state dealer) and forced him to plead guilty and pay a large fine, and agree to discontinue selling certain items they considered illegal in NYS ( gravity knives, stun guns, and black jackets). I will try to find the links to this case and a few others so you may see what really happens....Thanks to all who read my posts and understand the law is not always what we want it to be, but until you change it, you have to follow it or be prepared to deal with the penalities for breaking it....
Edited to add thid link:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1231311
 
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The link was not always working so here:

Online gun dealer fined $200,000 for sales in N.Y.




THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


(October 18, 2002) — ALBANY — A Georgia-based online and mail-order weapons retailer will pay a $200,000 fine for selling more than 4,500 illegal weapons to New York customers over the past three years, Attorney General Eliot Spitzer announced Thursday.

Bud K Worldwide Inc. has agreed to stop selling and shipping illegal weapons to New York addresses, Spitzer said.

New Yorkers ordered about $1 million worth of weapons from the Moultrie, Ga., company between September 1999 and May 2002. Eleven percent of those sales concerned weapons that are illegal in New York state, such as electric stun guns, Kung Fu throwing stars and the Fang of Baelin knuckle knife, Spitzer said.

“We were not aware they were restricted,” said Rodney Hunter, Bud K’s chief financial officer. “As soon as we were informed they were restricted, we stopped selling to that state.”

The company’s Web site boasts the “best knife prices,” offering, for example, a cane-sheathed sword for $19.95.

“A 15-year-old, or someone with a criminal record could go online with a credit card number and have these products shipped into New York state,” Spitzer said.

“These are lethal weapons. These can kill, maim, threaten. They’re used in robberies, assaults, murders.”

The martial arts weapons supplier must pay New York $198,000 in penalties and $2,000 to reimburse Spitzer’s office for its investigation. The company must provide Spitzer’s office with a list of New York customers who bought illegal weapons, and notify those buyers about their illegal purchase. It also must publish notices in its catalog and Web site telling customers which products are illegal in New York.

Possessing the weapons is considered a fourth-degree misdemeanor, which carries a maximum prison sentence of one year. Legal weapons the company sells include air guns and regular knives.

Consumers who turn in their illegal weapons to local police will not face criminal charges, Spitzer said.

The investigation began in October 2001, after a woman walked into the attorney general’s Rochester office with a catalog, asking if the items were legal.

“She had no idea how she wound up on their mailing list. When the catalog showed up at her house, she was upset,” said Benjamin Bruce, an assistant attorney general in Rochester.

The company had previously reached settlements with Massachusetts and California for selling illegal weapons in those states, Spitzer said.

Hunter denied the 14-year-old company had “any other issues with other states.
 
HI..FIRST THANK YOU TO ALL...it was good information on the laws.None of us are arguing that. Based on what Toms is stating,it's a logical move to avoid this transaction. After I spoke to the potential buyer ,he was very understanding and thankful for the information. Even if someone else interprets what has been stated by Tom, why not error on the side of caution :-) This was a no brainer for me and Im glad I took the time to ask. I know I learn some good information..and so did a fella living among these crazy restrictions.
Cheers to all and thanks again
Bud

I am a Knife dealer and I sell on other auction sites.because of the crap going on in new york I will not ship there any more. I have a bunch of customers say they under stand but can I ship them to there brother and I say no problem as long as they dont live in the state of new york. lets not get supid of a small sale. do you have the money to fight a very big law suit??is it worth your time if you get caught?? I want to wish you the best in luck.
 
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