Shirogorov go up in price?

[kancler]

I agree with most of those who said the price was too high. Due to deleteriousness on behalf of TrueNorth, I missing out, but I was taken aback when I returned to the website and saw the "Out of Stock" purchase price! Eight months ago, I purchased a brand new Mod 95 for $675. The same model is now $950. The demand has caused over a 40% increase in less than a year.

Having stated the above, there is only one Mod 95 that I would be willing to spend over $2000 for. Check out this video and fast forward to 00:43 seconds to witness the most beautiful Shirogorov I've yet to see; Timascus/Damascus Mod 95. Oh my!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNlK8kmaJ20

There is a huge demand in Russia and post USSR countries. It just increased recently, so could be a reason for price increase.
This is a first knife maker with serious high quality folding knives in Russia. Russian Knives is my hobby, so I cannot name any other folding knives manufacturer in Russia who even close to them Fixed blade knives - yes a lot of very good makers.

 

[TEFL0N_D0N_81]

Control of supply (being an exclusive dealer in US), you can create artificial demand and price gouge. This approach can be very profitable, but risk is losing your customer base if they can connect the dots.

 

[nwmetalbug]

Watch Jim Skeltons latest video for some info

 

[TEFL0N_D0N_81]

Watch Jim Skeltons latest video for some info

Maybe the cost had to be passed on.. I don't know. TNK should provide a rebuttal.

 

[Natedog351]

Just the way of the market right now everything is going up in price from already mostly overpriced prices
Jims video has nothing to do with it really he didnt get special treatment from a dealer and its become a big deal now
Isnt anything wrong with TNK charging more for shirogorovs when ppl r still paying that price for them and when you have knives that sell everyday for over 7x the amount a makers cost
Obviously if ppl are willing to pay that price then they must be worth it

 

[TEFL0N_D0N_81]

Just the way of the market right now everything is going up in price from already mostly overpriced prices
Jims video has nothing to do with it really he didnt get special treatment from a dealer and its become a big deal now
Isnt anything wrong with TNK charging more for shirogorovs when ppl r still paying that price for them and when you have knives that sell everyday for over 7x the amount a makers cost
Obviously if ppl are willing to pay that price then they must be worth it

Duping people to pay a certain amount isn't fair practice (assuming that was the case). And it certainly doesn't make it a good model for repeat business.

 

[Natedog351]

Duping people to pay a certain amount isn't fair practice (assuming that was the case). And it certainly doesn't make it a good model for repeat business.

How is it duping ppl to pay a certain amount of money your either willing to spend that amount or your not encase your not you can choose to look other places they might be the only dealer but TNK is not the only place you can get 1

 

[Scurvy092]

Maybe the cost had to be passed on.. I don't know. TNK should provide a rebuttal.

The cost hasn't been passed off. The knives TNK sold were bought at Blade. They jut waited a few months to put them up. They were bought for table prices and marked up summarily.

I could understand if Shiro raised his prices because of demand but he isn't making any more money off these, just TNK is.

I have plenty of time and access to Blade, and the Jersey City shows. I don't play the ridiculous primary and secondary market game.

It's one thing to buy a knife at a marker's table and know it will hold it value or you may be able to sell it for a little more if you need to. It's another to pay an already way inflated price and then hope and pray that the bottom doesn't fall out on the demand for the knife.

 

[Scurvy092]

Just the way of the market right now everything is going up in price from already mostly overpriced prices
Jims video has nothing to do with it really he didnt get special treatment from a dealer and its become a big deal now
Isnt anything wrong with TNK charging more for shirogorovs when ppl r still paying that price for them and when you have knives that sell everyday for over 7x the amount a makers cost
Obviously if ppl are willing to pay that price then they must be worth it

This post is so wrong.

A) Jim didn't ask for special treatment. Do you think he is the only person that asked Neil for info on when they would become available? I can point to several other people who asked Neil the same thing and got the same response. It's not different than people pestering ZT and Spyderco on when a new model will be release.

B) TNK is not a secondary dealer. They are a primary dealer and they have exclusive rights to Shiro in the US. They have control over the entire market and can obviously set the price. What is going to burn them is the bad taste it leaves in people's mouths. It makes him come across as greedy as opposed to a true knife guy who is making a living helping people acquire knives. Could you imagine if dealers tried to sell the ZT0777 at true market price? People would freak the hell out AND ZT would end their relationship with them immediately.

C) Just because people are willing to pay the price DOES NOT mean they MUST be worth it. They might be worth it but it isn't necessarily true. The market is high right now because Shiro is getting a lot of play on youtube, availability is low and his only seller in the US is gouging people which makes everyone think they must be worth it. What happens if one of those factors change? Maybe the youtube love goes away or a popular reviewer posts a negative review. Maybe they bring an absolute ton of knives to Blade next year. Maybe their contract with TNK expires and several other dealers get them in and competition drives the price down. Any of those would cause the prices to come down and leave a bunch of people who paid insane prices for them holding a knife worth much much less.

D) Why do you the makers themselves don't do this? RJ Martin could sell every Q36 he makes for well over $1000 and yet the table prices are still well under $1000. He doesn't do that because he knows he will ALWAYS be able to sell them for the price he asks and he knows that if he just starts adjusting the price on a monthly or yearly basis due to demand, he will alienate a lot of his customer base.

 

[ichor]

A couple old saws. People know the price of everything and the value of nothing. There's a sucker born every minute. ;-)

 

[Natedog351]

A) He acted like it was ridiculous for neil not to give him the info on when they were going to be uploaded
The entire fact that Jims video is part of this arguement is retarded TNK being late on the upload and etc is bad service there is no arguing that.

B) Regardless of TNK being primary or secondary dealer makes no difference to the fact that they can set prices higher than shirogorvs table price. And yes its very easy to imagine dealers asking higher prices on the 777 some dealers have prices that are even higher than market prices on some knives. As you pointed out though that will not be the case on the 777 because the relationship they have with zt. If the relationship between TNK and shirogorov is that TNK can put whatever price on them they want and still sell them than good for them thats their business. There is no real control to determine what knives will sell for on the secondary market as there will be some ppl willing to pay a lot more than table price for a knife they want. Comparing a custom to a production base knife is completely different btw.

C) So what if any of those factors fall through it doesnt mean that people will start posting them for a significant amount less or any amount less for that matter. As makers create more of 1 knife lets say mayo dr death jrs or dervish knives or hobacks their prices dont automatic go down everytime a new 1 is made because their demand still exceeds the amount of knives that they have made in all.

D) Being a maker and a seller are 2 different things in themselves a lot of makers make knives because they love to and want to make the very best knife possible and make it affordable for ppl to get they are not trying to get rich. Being a seller you look to make a profit do you want to burn everyone on prices no but who is to say where they have to draw a line on how much profit they make because lets be real many ppl in knives will simply flip knives for much more profit than some dealers.

This post is so wrong.

A) Jim didn't ask for special treatment. Do you think he is the only person that asked Neil for info on when they would become available? I can point to several other people who asked Neil the same thing and got the same response. It's not different than people pestering ZT and Spyderco on when a new model will be release.

B) TNK is not a secondary dealer. They are a primary dealer and they have exclusive rights to Shiro in the US. They have control over the entire market and can obviously set the price. What is going to burn them is the bad taste it leaves in people's mouths. It makes him come across as greedy as opposed to a true knife guy who is making a living helping people acquire knives. Could you imagine if dealers tried to sell the ZT0777 at true market price? People would freak the hell out AND ZT would end their relationship with them immediately.

C) Just because people are willing to pay the price DOES NOT mean they MUST be worth it. They might be worth it but it isn't necessarily true. The market is high right now because Shiro is getting a lot of play on youtube, availability is low and his only seller in the US is gouging people which makes everyone think they must be worth it. What happens if one of those factors change? Maybe the youtube love goes away or a popular reviewer posts a negative review. Maybe they bring an absolute ton of knives to Blade next year. Maybe their contract with TNK expires and several other dealers get them in and competition drives the price down. Any of those would cause the prices to come down and leave a bunch of people who paid insane prices for them holding a knife worth much much less.

D) Why do you the makers themselves don't do this? RJ Martin could sell every Q36 he makes for well over $1000 and yet the table prices are still well under $1000. He doesn't do that because he knows he will ALWAYS be able to sell them for the price he asks and he knows that if he just starts adjusting the price on a monthly or yearly basis due to demand, he will alienate a lot of his customer base.

 

[TEFL0N_D0N_81]

A) He acted like it was ridiculous for neil not to give him the info on when they were going to be uploaded
The entire fact that Jims video is part of this arguement is retarded TNK being late on the upload and etc is bad service there is no arguing that.

B) Regardless of TNK being primary or secondary dealer makes no difference to the fact that they can set prices higher than shirogorvs table price. And yes its very easy to imagine dealers asking higher prices on the 777 some dealers have prices that are even higher than market prices on some knives. As you pointed out though that will not be the case on the 777 because the relationship they have with zt. If the relationship between TNK and shirogorov is that TNK can put whatever price on them they want and still sell them than good for them thats their business. There is no real control to determine what knives will sell for on the secondary market as there will be some ppl willing to pay a lot more than table price for a knife they want. Comparing a custom to a production base knife is completely different btw.

C) So what if any of those factors fall through it doesnt mean that people will start posting them for a significant amount less or any amount less for that matter. As makers create more of 1 knife lets say mayo dr death jrs or dervish knives or hobacks their prices dont automatic go down everytime a new 1 is made because their demand still exceeds the amount of knives that they have made in all.

D) Being a maker and a seller are 2 different things in themselves a lot of makers make knives because they love to and want to make the very best knife possible and make it affordable for ppl to get they are not trying to get rich. Being a seller you look to make a profit do you want to burn everyone on prices no but who is to say where they have to draw a line on how much profit they make because lets be real many ppl in knives will simply flip knives for much more profit than some dealers.

There are a lot of things a retailer can do regarding price, and the subject's not a matter of whether TNK could or could not do it. It's a matter of good/bad business practice. If everyone thought the prices TNK charged factored in competition.. then sure. Hinderers were subject to that pricing model and like it or not, that was still within fair practice of the free market. In this case, TNK had monopoly power and charged double/triple the cost. Like I said earlier, this is a very profitable strategy. Just very risky because if the consumer base connects the dots and feel like they've been duped, repeat business can take quite a hit.

I remember Liu Kang doing this to the Busse base a while back (and for a good while too) until the consumer base had enough of it.

 

[Scurvy092]

C) So what if any of those factors fall through it doesnt mean that people will start posting them for a significant amount less or any amount less for that matter. As makers create more of 1 knife lets say mayo dr death jrs or dervish knives or hobacks their prices dont automatic go down everytime a new 1 is made because their demand still exceeds the amount of knives that they have made in all.

Yes but the demand can disappear in an instant. If something comes out the trumps Ti framelock flippers and the majority of custom collectors move away from the form factor, do you really expect all of the hip, en vogue ones (Shiro, Direware, Hinderer etc) to maintain their values.

You see prices dip slightly every time there is a knife show with a Hinderer lottery. There is a sudden glut from the flippers and the values come down slightly. You don't think that eventually there will be enough of them out there to soften the price some more? I'm sure they will always sell for a small premium over lotto price but not the 200-300 bucks you see now. It's already begun. Hinderers are always easy to find for sale in almost any configuration but they sell relatively quickly. Eventually they will sit longer and longer and longer and the price will go down and down and down.

 

[jimmer_5]

A couple old saws. People know the price of everything and the value of nothing. There's a sucker born every minute. ;-)

That first one about value is fantastic. I've had way too many conversations about that topic - that one may go in my sig line...