Shirogorov ..Good,Bad & the ugly. Need to know

Officer's Match said:
Yes and no. It did become more informative, but I personally never saw it as "going bad" before. It is hard to interpret tone from a typed word. JF and I were trying to see each others perspective - no harm there.
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Understood OM. Seen quite a few arguments over simple misunderstandings and thought this thread could’ve taken a turn for the worse.....glad it didn’t.
Joe
 
JustinFournier said:
...
When CS @ CRK told me that the blades on a CF scale knife will go off center and there is nothing they can do, or will do about it, I was shocked. I started asking people I knew who had CF CRKs if their blades were centered, and many of them told me, when examining they were not and they never noticed it before. No one seemed too bothered by it either. However, it totally ruins a knife for me. I realize most people don't mind the things that drive me insane.
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I had that same issue. But what is it about a carbon fiber scale that would cause the blade to go off center?
 
Twindog said:
I had that same issue. But what is it about a carbon fiber scale that would cause the blade to go off center?
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I remember from reading about the SR-71, that it leaked fuel when cold because the fuel was part of the coolant system to keep the titanium skin of the aircraft from overheating at high speed. At high speed, friction between the air and the titanium skin would cause the skin to expand and seal the gaps that allowed the fuel to leak at lower temperatures.

Carbon fiber does the complete opposite; It shrinks as temperature rises. Since both sides of the knife respond differently to changes in temperature, even mild temperature changes will theoretically effect the angle of the pivot. Since the tip of the knife is distal from the pivot, the slightest difference in the angle of the pivot will be magnified at the tip.

I'd bet with a fast and drastic enough temperature change you could watch the effect in real time. Rapidly heating your knife between 0deg C to 100deg C, for example. I would not try that though, as you could potentially cause the CF to crack in the worst case or cause micro-cracks in the best case.
 
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Twindog said:
I had that same issue. But what is it about a carbon fiber scale that would cause the blade to go off center?
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CRK’s explanation was that there are two different tensile strengths between the Ti and CF so each pushes against the blade with a different force which means the blade gets moved off center.
 
JustinFournier said:
CRK’s explanation was that there are two different tensile strengths between the Ti and CF so each pushes against the blade with a different force which means the blade gets moved off center.
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Either they don't understand the definition of tensile strength, they were counting on you not knowing or, in fairness to everyone, they oversimplified their explanation.

Edit: ...or maybe I'm a presumptuous know-it-all.
 
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Twindog said:
I had that same issue. But what is it about a carbon fiber scale that would cause the blade to go off center?
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OT but I had to respond to this: I bought that knife from you on the Exchange and ended up sending it to CRK. According to the Mothership in Boise, both washers were pinched and damaged so they replaced them and the knife came back dead on centered. I did not hang onto that knife long enough thereafter to see if it was going to shift again toward the CF scale as I was over that one CRK after all said and done (part of the reason was that CRK had stated what the chances of it moving again in the long term was not going to be eliminated).

I don't intend to make this into an accusatory argument between us, just stating the facts as CRK had determined on their warranty paperwork specific to that particular KA exclusive which both you and I had owned.
 
I have a large 25 CF. The blade is off centered an incredibly tiny amount. It is no where near rubbing and hard to see. The knife is so good in all other areas it really doesn’t bother me at all.
Excellent flicker! Makes a very satisfying ‘CLACK’ upon lock up.
I could see how it can bother some.
Joe

Casinostocks said:
OT but I had to respond to this: I bought that knife from you on the Exchange and ended up sending it to CRK. According to the Mothership in Boise, both washers were pinched and damaged so they replaced them and the knife came back dead on centered. I did not hang onto that knife long enough thereafter to see if it was going to shift again toward the CF scale as I was over that one CRK after all said and done (part of the reason was that CRK had stated what the chances of it moving again in the long term was not going to be eliminated).

I don't intend to make this into an accusatory argument between us, just stating the facts as CRK had determined on their warranty paperwork specific to that particular KA exclusive which both you and I had owned.
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palonej said:
I have a large 25 CF. The blade is off centered an incredibly tiny amount. It is no where near rubbing and hard to see. The knife is so good in all other areas it really doesn’t bother me at all.
Excellent flicker! Makes a very satisfying ‘CLACK’ upon lock up.
I could see how it can bother some.
Joe
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Joe, that particular KA exclusive large 21 had the sharpest edge out of all the CRKs I have had owned (admittedly not a huge CRK connoisseur so my experiences have been limited to a mere handful of such). After it came back from Boise, it'd flick like a dream and it'd clack with the utmost authority. It turned out to be a very nice knife and I'm glad that it went to a happier home. As for me, I'm not a huge folder guy (Carothers fixed blades for me only!) and I have limited my nuttiness vis a vis folder, just to a handful of Spydercos and SAKs. Begrudgingly, I have had to nip that addiction in the bud because still have my youngest in college. May revisit that scenario in a couple of years when all said and done. I've always been fascinated with the Shiro 111 because I tend to luv large folders so I would not mind a pocket sword when the time is right. Take care, Mat.
 
JustinFournier said:
CRK’s explanation was that there are two different tensile strengths between the Ti and CF so each pushes against the blade with a different force which means the blade gets moved off center.
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I heard that is the CRK's explanation but that does not make much sense because if it is true, why other brands with cf scale on one side and ti scale on the other do not have this off centering problem? ZT 0452cf and Reate Horizon D TI/CF are two quick examples that I happen to own.
 
sharp_edge said:
I heard that is the CRK's explanation but that does not make much sense because if it is true, why other brands with cf scale on one side and ti scale on the other do not have this off centering problem? ZT 0452cf and Reate Horizon D TI/CF are two quick examples that I happen to own.
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Same with my CF/Ti Spyderco Military: zero leaning from it's center :thumbsup:
 
Maybe the difference has to do with the steel liner in the CF scale on the Spyderco Military. Steel reacts to temp changes in the same way titanium does.
 
Hey Mat!!
I am no CRK afficianato either. I had no clue about this issue till I read about it recently.
Besides that, the knife is pretty much perfect and I really enjoy it.
The folder affliction can get expensive very quickly!! Smart move getting away from it brother!!
Joe

PS.....we got a couple inches of snow yesterday and the dogs went nuts!! We had so much fun in it last night!! We were out there till my son and I were frozen solid!! Amazes me how the cold and snow doesn’t bother them at all!

Casinostocks said:
Joe, that particular KA exclusive large 21 had the sharpest edge out of all the CRKs I have had owned (admittedly not a huge CRK connoisseur so my experiences have been limited to a mere handful of such). After it came back from Boise, it'd flick like a dream and it'd clack with the utmost authority. It turned out to be a very nice knife and I'm glad that it went to a happier home. As for me, I'm not a huge folder guy (Carothers fixed blades for me only!) and I have limited my nuttiness vis a vis folder, just to a handful of Spydercos and SAKs. Begrudgingly, I have had to nip that addiction in the bud because still have my youngest in college. May revisit that scenario in a couple of years when all said and done. I've always been fascinated with the Shiro 111 because I tend to luv large folders so I would not mind a pocket sword when the time is right. Take care, Mat.
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palonej said:
Hey Mat!!
I am no CRK afficianato either. I had no clue about this issue till I read about it recently.
Besides that, the knife is pretty much perfect and I really enjoy it.
The folder affliction can get expensive very quickly!! Smart move getting away from it brother!!
Joe

PS.....we got a couple inches of snow yesterday and the dogs went nuts!! We had so much fun in it last night!! We were out there till my son and I were frozen solid!! Amazes me how the cold and snow doesn’t bother them at all!
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Would luv to take my "Pup" to see the snow because in her 5 years of life, she's never seen it here in Cali. Fortunately, we do tend to get some of that white stuff once in a while in the mountainous region not too far off here in the County of San Diego. Luv'd that pic of your Dexter but didn't comment since I've been known to derails a thread or two, oh here and there but not intentionally! I must also say that you look pretty, pretty good for someone in his 50's! Benjamin Button effect, perhaps :p

Dexter is a big boy at 110! My Livvie came from big stock too as her dad (biological :D) supposedly tipped the scales at over 115 and her mom around 90. She floats in the mid 80's but can easily get to 90+ with her healthy appetite. We want to keep her on the lighter side of her genetic because of the potential GSD issues with hips although her bloodline did not seem to have had that inherent issue, but who knows!

As for fixed knives, I'm exclusively in the tank for Mr. & Mrs. Carothers. Try to score one of theirs at some point if into fixed. You'd luv 'em ;)
 
This thread is the "Stairway to Heaven" of threads. Just when you think you got the rhythm, it changes.


...and she's buying a Shirogorov from Russia....
 
silverds said:
Either they don't understand the definition of tensile strength, they were counting on you not knowing or, in fairness to everyone, they oversimplified their explanation.

Edit: ...or maybe I'm a presumptuous know-it-all.
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It came from CS, who was given an explanation by a tech there.

I didn’t bother arguing because they gave me their position so it doesn’t matter if the reason is bs.

For the record I own 2 HaTis and both are dead center like the rest of my CRKs.

I don't count the 111 as it’s a liner lock.
 
sharp_edge said:
I heard that is the CRK's explanation but that does not make much sense because if it is true, why other brands with cf scale on one side and ti scale on the other do not have this off centering problem? ZT 0452cf and Reate Horizon D TI/CF are two quick examples that I happen to own.
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Correct IMO. Something is going on as they are off center. Could be due to this particular material they use, but material selection is their choice so it’s still their problem.

As I mentioned I didn’t get into it with them as at that point I was done with it all and decided to move on from CRK.
 
FWIW, I have had several CF Sebbie's and never had one off center, which may tend to explain my opinion. I bought one (secondary market) that the seller described as a touch OC, but upon taking it down, cleaning and reassembly, it was perfect for me (that one was a large Insingo CF).
 
JustinFournier said:
Interesting. The Southard Shiro collaboration will be $1500-$2000 on the open market. Recent full customs from Sergey run 14-20k. Yes, up to $20,000.

Part of what I pay for the aesthetics. They make a sexy knife.
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I was lucky enough to “win” the chance to buy the Southard Shiro Russian Flipping Tanto collab. for 1500. They’re fetching 22-2500 in the secondary. Frankly I’ve never seen a better knife for under 3000. The mechanics, attention to detail, overall quality are mind boggling. I collect only customs, and have had them from most of the top makers, and the custom division and collab Shiros still impress the hell out of me. I can’t speak to the production versions, but Shiro is really doing some incredible stuff. I can’t wait for the next collab.
 
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