Shirogorov knives: background info needed

[Hackenslash]

Some google-fu for you:
https://www.reddit.com/r/knifeclub/comments/3a4cm1/igor_shirogorov_the_elder_brother_of_the/
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/shirogorov-tragedy.1298705/
https://recon1.com/sergey-shirogorov/ (Click for the bio, oddly no mention of Igor)
https://www.instagram.com/s_shirogorov/?hl=en

I know there isn't one single source for info, but some of that is language barrier. Hopefully some of this helps. As someone mentioned, they have an active Rep at USN.

I have one Shiro, an old Tabargan that I picked up on the exchange. They, IMO, are NOT worth the price to obtain one. They're great knives, I mean REALLY great knives but not that much better than many much cheaper options. I think Reate currently rivals Shiro knives (although the price of new models reflects that rivalry) and there are many others not that far behind (CKF, Olamic).

Sergey Shirogorov has worked with Dimitri Sinkevich. I anticipate soon we'll have an official Shiro collab with a major manufacturer that'll bring the style and quality to the masses at a palatable price (I'm looking at you, ZT!).

Optionally, success will fuel increased production and a more explicit export policy and we'll see Shiro prices abate, not unlike the Hinderer price collapse we've all witnessed.

I really hope to see this happen. To a degree it's already happening; I've greedily watched prices come down on Neons. That's the Shiro for me! Most others are too big for EDC. But damn, that Neon...

 

[goldie]

Why is the 111 so expensive considering its mostly carbon fiber and a nested liner with a ti backspacer? I like that model a lot but 950+ ? I cannot understand that one when it comes to pricing. Its for the most part similar in construction and materials as a spyderco military.

 

[McFeeli]

Which infers multiple persons today.

Why does most of the literature if not all still reference the brothers when one had passed away for some time? Shouldn't it be from maker Shirogorov whose bro passed some time ago?

How does that work? Which should we believe?

What I'd like to know is why you don't seem to believe that Shirogorov's are made in Russia? I mean I see the value in being skeptical, but Christ man they have videos out the kazoo.

And I'd imagine it's a way honor his brothers memory. That's actually admirable to me. If it was my brother, the one who was there since the beginning, I'd keep the "brothers" myself.

You seem like a troll. A big, misinformed troll.

 

[AtechReviews]

Where can this history be read?

Don't tell us, like I'm telling you, show us.

What gives your words more weight than mine or anyone else, no disrespect here?

Where did you get the story from? Online forums? That's just gossip, watercooler speak, hearsay. What's so remarkable about Shirogorov himself, or which piece has received Global acclaim? Wiki page?

Just wondering about the legend behind the myth.

You can read it on their official site (with Google Translate): http://www.shirogorov.com/pages/igor-gennadevich-shirogorov/

I'll paste key phrases here:
"Igor Gennadievich Shirogorov

June 14, 2015. Igor Shirogorov has passed away. Brother. The pain of loss can not be conveyed in words.

Igor was born in 1978 in Yaroslavl. In 1997 he graduated with honors from the Yaroslavl State Higher Professional Lyceum, received the specialty "operator of machine tools with numerical program control". Served in the army in 1997-1999. After the service, Igor got a job in a computer company, where he went from a simple driver to the head of the department. I was always amazed at how a brother could believe in himself and not give in to difficulties. He always dreamed of starting his own business, and in 2005 he proposed to start producing knives together. In fact, at that time, the Shirogorov Brothers' Workshop was organized."

Why does most of the literature if not all still reference the brothers when one had passed away for some time? Shouldn't it be from maker Shirogorov whose bro passed some time ago?

Shirogorov Brothers Workshop is the name of the company, don't think it would be wise to demand that they change the name just because one of them passed away in an unfortunate accident.

Hope that shuts off your ignorant conspiracy theories and rumor spreading.
If you continue to spread your nonsense after this - you are nothing but a big biased troll.

 

[wensynch]

Ive read it's site. It doesn't. You don't.

Here's Quartermaster's own website with its own literature:

https://www.quartermasterknives.com/url] Check out their customer support address: a PO Box.

Now, go ahead and provide some independent informational instead of promotional literature. Promotional literature.

What I knew is that those companies all originated from the same place around the same time offering the same products. I know China's next attempt at offering its knives after China's reputation wasn't good began marketing them as Russian. Which other Russian company names are there and how many connected to China?

Again.. Show your source. Verified by whom? Who are you again today speak for Shiro? Pray tell.

 

[wensynch]

What I'd like to know is why you don't seem to believe that Shirogorov's are made in Russia? I mean I see the value in being skeptical, but Christ man they have videos out the kazoo.

Well then, source? For the origins of Shirogorov? Exciting!

I accept your challenge and calling you out. You're saying it. Prove it. We'll at least get to the bottom of this, right?

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Well then, source? For the origins of Shirogorov? Exciting!

I accept your challenge and calling you out. You're saying it. Prove it. We'll at least get to the bottom of this, right?

Take off your tinfoil hat and quit trolling.

 

[AtechReviews]

Ive read it's site. It doesn't. You don't.

Here's Quartermaster's own website with its own literature:

https://www.quartermasterknives.com...d. Who are you again today speak for Shiro?

This isn't a good comparison.
There was strong evidence against Quartermaster's claims that the knives are made in the US.
Till this date I haven't seen one piece of evidence to suggest Shiros aren't made in Russia or that the info they provided was incorrect in any form (I bet you couldn't supply it either).
On the contrary, I've seen pics and videos from their workshop that prove otherwise.
Again, I'm not associated with their company, but I am against misinformation and trolling.

 

[ODYN]

Well then, source? For the origins of Shirogorov? Exciting!

I accept your challenge and calling you out. You're saying it. Prove it. We'll at least get to the bottom of this, right?

They proved it many times. He regularly makes full custom knives (that fetched $10k in auctions, but that's irrelevant) with completely different hardware, dimensions, blade grinds, etc from their production line, whereas CKF generally just customize their production knives for a one-off. They showed several production pictures, testing, prototypes, and those are enough to convince me that they are made in Russia.

If you really think otherwise, shouldn't you be the one to prove it? (Saying "those companies all originated from the same place around the same time offering the same products" doesn't count as proof, btw)

 

[skyhorse]

Well then, source? For the origins of Shirogorov? Exciting!

I accept your challenge and calling you out. You're saying it. Prove it. We'll at least get to the bottom of this, right?

Shirogorov isn't some scum bag like Jared West , so this comparison has no merit.

 

[Mo2]

Well then, source? For the origins of Shirogorov? Exciting!

I accept your challenge and calling you out. You're saying it. Prove it. We'll at least get to the bottom of this, right?

This is a troll. Don't feed the trolls. Should this kind of trolling be handled by the moderators?

 

[chiral.grolim]

This isn't a good comparison.
There was strong evidence against Quartermaster's claims that the knives are made in the US.
Till this date I haven't seen one piece of evidence to suggest Shiros aren't made in Russia or that the info they provided was incorrect in any form (I bet you couldn't supply it either).
On the contrary, I've seen pics and videos from their workshop that prove otherwise.
Again, I'm not associated with their company, but I am against misinformation and trolling.

Perhaps this is a good opportunity to link some of the production pics and videos from the company?

I am one who really appreciates the designs that these brothers brought forward but have never felt able to purchase one of their knives, nor have I fallen to purchase one of the many chinese versions, and the evident quality of the chinese versions is certainly sufficient to generate controversy regarding the origin of Shirogorov knives as well as other Russian knives. I recall not long ago that another Russian designer made the mistake of publishing a CAD with measurements for a knife he was having made, when low-and-behold a chinese group manufactured and began selling it without reference to him as the designer. The quality of knives now coming out of China and the global proximity of Russia and China without the ability of users here to track shipments by digging up documents on the companies makes it easy to speculate as to the relationship between such entities. Dishonesty by one company can lead to accusations of dishonesty against another.

 

[AtechReviews]

Perhaps this is a good opportunity to link some of the production pics and videos from the company?

I am one who really appreciates the designs that these brothers brought forward but have never felt able to purchase one of their knives, nor have I fallen to purchase one of the many chinese versions, and the evident quality of the chinese versions is certainly sufficient to generate controversy regarding the origin of Shirogorov knives as well as other Russian knives. I recall not long ago that another Russian designer made the mistake of publishing a CAD with measurements for a knife he was having made, when low-and-behold a chinese group manufactured and began selling it without reference to him as the designer. The quality of knives now coming out of China and the global proximity of Russia and China without the ability of users here to track shipments by digging up documents on the companies makes it easy to speculate as to the relationship between such entities. Dishonesty by one company can lead to accusations of dishonesty against another.

You can check their IG page, the info is out there.
I've handled most of the high end copies of Shiro knives, as well as the original knives and can assure you those are very different.
I mean they function almost the same, but they are made in a different way in terms of processing and finish.
If you ever hold both and even better compare them - you will probably understand that.

There were several cases where Russian designs were stolen by the Chinese and put into production before the original (most happened to CKF IMO).
One of the most famous cases is the Gnome knife by Anton Malyshev (AKA Tohus), but there also was the Medichi project (now known as the Piston knife) and the Asymmetric Fixed blade designed by Alexey Konygin.
Since then KJ have improved his (their) info security, so I don't think we will see more cases like that in the near future.

Global proximity doesn't really mean anything these days, maybe 30 years ago.
Lots of US companies produce their knives in China and Taiwan and ZT clones are as accurate as the Shiro ones.
You wouldn't assume ZT are making knives or parts in China, would you?

 

[mikomonday]

Perhaps this is a good opportunity to link some of the production pics and videos from the company?

I am one who really appreciates the designs that these brothers brought forward but have never felt able to purchase one of their knives, nor have I fallen to purchase one of the many chinese versions, and the evident quality of the chinese versions is certainly sufficient to generate controversy regarding the origin of Shirogorov knives as well as other Russian knives.

So you are saying that you've never bought either the Chinese clones or a real Shirogorov, but feel that what you've heard about the clones makes them good enough to cast doubt to whether or not the real ones are made in Russia? What is evident in terms of quality? I'm sure nearly anyone who has a Sebenza and a Shiro can confidently say that the Shirogorov is at least AS GOOD as a CRK and I've seen a way more Sebenza clones that reportedly feel and look exactly like the real thing. Does that mean that Chris Reeve sources his knives from China too?

I recall not long ago that another Russian designer made the mistake of publishing a CAD with measurements for a knife he was having made, when low-and-behold a chinese group manufactured and began selling it without reference to him as the designer.

I'm assuming since Quartermaster is based in the United States that we should be wary of US makers too.

The quality of knives now coming out of China and the global proximity of Russia and China without the ability of users here to track shipments by digging up documents on the companies makes it easy to speculate as to the relationship between such entities. Dishonesty by one company can lead to accusations of dishonesty against another.

Is proximity really an issue in todays world where everything is shipped by air? Could Quartermaster not be selling WE knives because China is so far away from the United States? I don't understand how they could possibly prove to you that they exist and operate out of Russia, there are photos of Russian machinery in their workshops, their warranty address is based in Russia, and they even ship with a slip written in Russian to show that the knife conforms to Russian bladed weapons laws.

 

[chiral.grolim]

You can check their IG page, the info is out there.
I've handled most of the high end copies of Shiro knives, as well as the original knives and can assure you those are very different.
I mean they function almost the same, but they are made in a different way in terms of processing and finish.
If you ever hold both and even better compare them - you will probably understand that.

There were several cases where Russian designs were stolen by the Chinese and put into production before the original (most happened to CKF IMO).
One of the most famous cases is the Gnome knife by Anton Malyshev (AKA Tohus), but there also was the Medichi project (now known as the Piston knife) and the Asymmetric Fixed blade designed by Alexey Konygin.
Since then KJ have improved his (their) info security, so I don't think we will see more cases like that in the near future.

Global proximity doesn't really mean anything these days, maybe 30 years ago.
Lots of US companies produce their knives in China and Taiwan and ZT clones are as accurate as the Shiro ones.
You wouldn't assume ZT are making knives or parts in China, would you?

The Gnome, that's the one i was thinking of And I believe you about the difference holding them, others have said the same about CRKs and I've never held those or the imitations.

Would you be willing to embed images or videos that would help quash the skepticism? It's funny, one of the things that helped PUSH skepticism about QTRMSTR (or whatever it is) was their instagram pics looking identical to the ones from WE knives, as you are probably aware. The trouble was, until the link was made, those pics on the Instagram feed were counted as evidence of where the production was happening I checked the instagram you linked and saw the one of a Russian delivery truck bringing a new machine to the shop? Stuff like that can count as evidence here, it seems, but better is a shop tour video!

I actually do wonder about how ZT and Benchmade and Kershaw and others source the construction materials for their knives, even if they really build them all in the US. All the screws, the liners, the bushings... all made in USA? *shrug* I hope so, but I honestly don't care that much about it. Like you said, so many of the companies also have knives being produced in east Asia. HOWEVER we have certain records-laws here in the US and some have the ability to uncover shipping manifests and the like, which is another way evidence has been published regarding QTMblah making their knives overseas and lying about it. To my knowledge, we have no such way of obviating the honesty of Shirogorov. It would be nice if we did. It shouldn't be necessary, but even on the Instagram feed you linked there are many comments referring not the knives by Shirogorov but to the clones The clones are so prolific that one sees more clones of Shiro than the actual knives! It becomes difficult for knife enthusiasts to determine what is authentic and what is a clone, and so the question pops up, "How do we know the 'real' ones aren't also made in China?" It sucks, but that is the reality.

So you are saying that you've never bought either the Chinese clones or a real Shirogorov, but feel that what you've heard about the clones makes them good enough to cast doubt to whether or not the real ones are made in Russia? What is evident in terms of quality? I'm sure nearly anyone who has a Sebenza and a Shiro can confidently say that the Shirogorov is at least AS GOOD as a CRK and I've seen a way more Sebenza clones that reportedly feel and look exactly like the real thing. Does that mean that Chris Reeve sources his knives from China too?

Again, no first-hand experience, but even that linked Shirogorov instagram feed has a bunch of comments from clone-owners talking about how much they like their clones and so appreciate the design. And in terms of quality, again one can look at discussions of the quality of Reate, CKF, WE, etc. I have no trouble believing that a real Shiro is equal in quality to a CRK, and will believe those who say that you can feel the difference between the real thing and even a high-quality clone, I have no personal experience in the matter, but i also read reports of the high-quality chinese knives and so understand the skepticism of "how russian?" the Shiro's are, that's all.

I'm assuming since Quartermaster is based in the United States that we should be wary of US makers too.

Absolutely Plus, I just love to see the honest ones prove themselves via shop-tour videos

Is proximity really an issue in todays world where everything is shipped by air? Could Quartermaster not be selling WE knives because China is so far away from the United States? I don't understand how they could possibly prove to you that they exist and operate out of Russia, there are photos of Russian machinery in their workshops, their warranty address is based in Russia, and they even ship with a slip written in Russian to show that the knife conforms to Russian bladed weapons laws.

The proximity thing was more a question because i don't know how it works as to being able to acquire documentation on manifests being delivered to companies, but part of what busts QTrMsTr (is that right?) was evidence of a shipment being delivered to their "headquarters", not sure we could get that kind of evidence for China-to-Russia. *shrug* I also don't know what CKF sends with their knives, but aren't all those CNC'd in China and built in Russia? Do they send the same info with theirs? *shrug* Again, not being knowledgeable on the matter, I can understand the doubts here raised, even if those raising them are trolls.

Sorry for the long post How about some pics of the knives?

 

[bearfacedkiller]

They have been making knives since ~2005 in Yaroslavl, Russia, where both were born (no link to Asia BTW).

I am pretty sure Russia is in Asia.

I am not implying that they are Chinese made or any of that other nonsense this other guy is spewing but rather just that you may need to brush up on your geography.

 

[chiral.grolim]

I am pretty sure Russia is in Asia.
...you may need to brush up on your geography.

Yaroslavl, Russia is considered to be a European location. Russia is a transcontinental nation.

 

[AtechReviews]

I am pretty sure Russia is in Asia.

Russia is a large country, part of it is in Europe and part is in Asia (divided by the Ural mountains).
The city of Yaroslavl (where Shiros are made) resides western of those mountains, so technically Shiros are produced in Europe and not in Asia.

rather just that you may need to brush up on your geography.

Right back at ya bud

 

[bearfacedkiller]

Yes, but you said "no link to Asia". I see a link.

I didn't say the knives were made in Asia.

I was just being a smart ass anyway. I realize that isn't very helpful. Sorry.

 

[mikomonday]

chiral.grolim it's definitely good to have healthy skepticism but to alas, the only way to truly know is to seek out the answer yourself. CKF to my knowledge has never hid the fact that their production is done in china, same with Reate knives. In fact they pride themselves on providing exceptional quality despite being made in a country known for low standards.

At some point with enough effort, there may very well be a chinese company that can rival the quality, fit and finish, and consistency of a Shirogorov. Perhaps if they tried hard enough they'd even exceed it. However I can say with a very high level of confidence that anyone who has handled a real one and a clone could tell blindfolded which is which.

If the knives were really made in China, I'd really like to see some of these clones have some of the Shirogorov bearing systems. Reate and CKF knives have captured bearings that look pretty much like these Green Thorn/Kevin John knives but no clone out there shares any of Shirogorov's pivot systems. (PB washer, roller thrust bearings, standard uncaged ball bearings)

As you wish, here are some pics