SHOOTOUT: CTS XHP vs CPM S30V on 5/8" rope with coarse edge.

You are correct in that edge angle changes thickness for a set height from the edge, but when the knife is compound ground, the thickness of the blade before sharpening of course dictates the greatest possible thickness. The scandi grind provides the greatest example of that. Compare that to a full height hollow grind, and even with an identical edge angle, say 20 degrees included, there will be a large difference in effort needed to make a cut deeper than the height of the edge bevel.

Also, I was quoting the difference for a thinner primary couple with the lower angle, this was a total overall improvement between grind profiles and not just angle. Jsut angle still gives 3 to 5 times the improvement. The test was conducted so long ago, and I have been repeating myself without referencing the numbers. But yes, you can get quite close to ten times the cutting performance by dropping the grind thickness before sharpening to about ten thousandths from a respectable twenty, and also going to about 20 degrees included instead of 50. Now imagine, or actually measure if the knives are available to you, the difference between effort in cutting a pile of rope/cardboard/wood with a 'heavy duty chopper' with a primary grind stopping at fifty thousandths, and an edge grind of 30 degrees per side versus a knife taken to ten thousandths before an edge grind of 20 degrees total. This is one thing that leads me quite far away from such heavy edges. Yes, they can stand the abuse of heavy cutting, but they also need the abuse of heavy cutting because you cannot cut lightly. It is almost like wanting a less aerodynamic body design for a vehicle just so you can stuff a larger motor in it to force it to cut through air resistance with much worse fuel economy.
 
Well, that sucks. I ALWAYS root against S30V, because I've had such bad luck with it. Kind of like certain college football teams that I love to hate...

Thanks for the report! I think... :D
 
I think once good controls are set up in testing, people find that there just isn't any magic to it and it is all very repeatable. I'm fairly certain that before you posted these results some people would argue that XHP would have come ahead just because it is 'stainless D2' and D2 is awesome-er than other stuff.

Yeah, the really interesting thing is that I really use both of the knives at work in rotation, mostly the S30V knife.

Over time I realized that the S30V knife was just plain holding an edge longer and the difference was very noticeable so I planned to do this comparison awhile ago, but had to wait for more rope before I did it.

I kept quiet about the whole thing until now after the testing. :D

Yes, XHP is definitely stainless D2, and the Military performed comparably to the Dozier in D2 that I tested with the same edge finish and edge geometry as in:

Dozier D2 - 220 cuts
XHP Military - 240 cuts

I have been doing this for a long time now and have tested so many knives I got the method and technique down very well. :)

Nope, no magic at all really as from the testing the results really does follow the alloy content, that's with the coarse edge that I normally use.
 
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Hi Ankerson,

in your other steel coparison thread you have CTS-XHP steel higher than S30V:

Category 4

ZDP-189 (65)
CPM-154 (62)
ELMAX (60)
CTS-XHP (Military) (60+)
Super Blue (61.5)
CPM 3V (Big Chris)


Category 5

S30V (60)
 
Hi Ankerson,

in your other steel coparison thread you have CTS-XHP steel higher than S30V:

Category 4

ZDP-189 (65)
CPM-154 (62)
ELMAX (60)
CTS-XHP (Military) (60+)
Super Blue (61.5)
CPM 3V (Big Chris)


Category 5

S30V (60)


That thread is with polished edges..... And for general reference.
 
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How is the percentage difference with polished edges vs coarse? I think there is some confusion because there is some expectation that the total amount of rope cut might be similar between polished and coarse (I suspect it is actually a really big difference) and that there is a large difference between categories in your rank (I suspect it is closer than some people think)

IMO, carbide type and volume help in slicing much more than they could hurt in push cutting. Because you can make any steel push cut through sharpening, but the more carbide rich can still slice after the edge begins to dull. Every steel dulls with fair rapidity in the early cutting strokes after sharpening, but the higher/harder carbide steels level off at a cutting ability still higher than the low carbide steels. So every edge eventually sucks to cut with, but with more Mo, W, or V, they suck a bit less.
 
How is the percentage difference with polished edges vs coarse? I think there is some confusion because there is some expectation that the total amount of rope cut might be similar between polished and coarse (I suspect it is actually a really big difference) and that there is a large difference between categories in your rank (I suspect it is closer than some people think)

IMO, carbide type and volume help in slicing much more than they could hurt in push cutting. Because you can make any steel push cut through sharpening, but the more carbide rich can still slice after the edge begins to dull. Every steel dulls with fair rapidity in the early cutting strokes after sharpening, but the higher/harder carbide steels level off at a cutting ability still higher than the low carbide steels. So every edge eventually sucks to cut with, but with more Mo, W, or V, they suck a bit less.


It's pretty large, usually 50% to 80% depending on the steel in favor of the coarser edges. :)
 
That's interesting - S90V has (according to wikipedia) more carbon AND more vanadium, yet was far less effective at cutting. Why would this be?
 
"CPM S30V - 300 cuts"

"
CPM S90V (60 HRC) - 460 Cuts "

The S90V took 160 more cuts for the same thing, did it not? (unless I misread the information)


The higher the number of cuts the better it is, not worse....
 
So to get the best out of xhp what kind of edge would be recommended jim? I've been putting polished edges on it and it has done me well but if a coarse edge would do me better I think I will stop at 600=1000 grit then strop it. On s35v i like it polished but in s30v i always put a toothy edge since the polished edges on s30v for me have been not to well.
 
So to get the best out of xhp what kind of edge would be recommended jim? I've been putting polished edges on it and it has done me well but if a coarse edge would do me better I think I will stop at 600=1000 grit then strop it. On s35v i like it polished but in s30v i always put a toothy edge since the polished edges on s30v for me have been not to well.

600-1000 would be fine. :)

Try it and see what you think.
 
Thanks jim when I needa reprofile my newer vecp I think I will try it out with a 800 grit then strop!
 
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