Shop 1 or Shop 2
- Thread starter Sundsvall
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 8, 1999
- Messages
- 8,911
Shop 1 knives were made under contract by a place down in the Terai. They combined making other khuks with occasional runs of HI khuks. The runs of HI khuks were only done when the shop owner was present.
The arrangement fell apart when the shop owner needed to go to India for back surgery IIRC. And the healing process was quite extended. That left Pala with nothing to sell so he started Shop 2. The shop I khuks had butcaps plain on top with floral tooling soldered on the sides.
When Shop 2 opened up, the same kind of buttcaps were initially used, but more poorly finished. That was soon chnged to a flat buttcap cover as it remains today. The Shop 2 khuks may have been higher quality in performance, but showed a notable dip in cosmetics. It took some 3 months, maybe more, about the time Bura came along and they moved to their own newly erected shop ( Birghorka ) in the "suburbs" before they approached and then surpassed Shop 1.
Shop 1 blades are pretty but of lower pine ( pine being the Nepali term for hardness ). No kami marks on any of them.
Shop 2 tried numbering them, unfortunately only I guy could recognise the numbers. I believe the numbering stopped before #400. Later #s were marked "made by KGR". Whomever he was. That ended fairly soon. Unfortunately while made tough, they were made to be good enough for government work. Most Shop 2'a are fairly rough. My Shop 2 20" Sirupati sits behind my truck seat. Old ugly but tough. Some better than most villagers, but more like they tried to pretty up villagers with extra polish and buffing. My BirGhorka 20" Sirupati hangs in a cloth shopping bag in the closet alongside other works of art.
Also about the time they moved to Birghorka the maker's marks were assigned. It was culture shock that Americans didn't just want them made pretty and unbreakable, they wanted to know which kami made it. And if it was a good job, they'd ask for more from that kami.
(We ought to send them a videotape citiquing each kami's work and send it back with Pala. Have Gelbu translate. That would be an absolute riot. Especially if the kamis could look over at one another and say - hey, that American was right on the nose on your work! )
Remember these are the untouchable caste - to have person after person get up and talk about good and bad of their work half a world away, and that different customers had differnt favorite kamis because of liking one's style or balance or handles. They'd practically all have near heart attacks.
Wish I could see a video of them reacting to our comments.
Shop I was contract, softer, but well finished.
Shop 2 was it became, an interim shop where Pala and Gelbu and eventually Bura tried to bring things up to snuff. High pine, tough, and blems all over.
Birghorka was where everything came together. The best khuks made in the world, hand forged, and some ineffable spirit in each of them* to boot!
* There is a spirit in each khuk that comes out of Birghorka - but it does not follow that any particular khuk will talk to you. It will find it's place in a trade or swap or as a gift.
The arrangement fell apart when the shop owner needed to go to India for back surgery IIRC. And the healing process was quite extended. That left Pala with nothing to sell so he started Shop 2. The shop I khuks had butcaps plain on top with floral tooling soldered on the sides.
When Shop 2 opened up, the same kind of buttcaps were initially used, but more poorly finished. That was soon chnged to a flat buttcap cover as it remains today. The Shop 2 khuks may have been higher quality in performance, but showed a notable dip in cosmetics. It took some 3 months, maybe more, about the time Bura came along and they moved to their own newly erected shop ( Birghorka ) in the "suburbs" before they approached and then surpassed Shop 1.
Shop 1 blades are pretty but of lower pine ( pine being the Nepali term for hardness ). No kami marks on any of them.
Shop 2 tried numbering them, unfortunately only I guy could recognise the numbers. I believe the numbering stopped before #400. Later #s were marked "made by KGR". Whomever he was. That ended fairly soon. Unfortunately while made tough, they were made to be good enough for government work. Most Shop 2'a are fairly rough. My Shop 2 20" Sirupati sits behind my truck seat. Old ugly but tough. Some better than most villagers, but more like they tried to pretty up villagers with extra polish and buffing. My BirGhorka 20" Sirupati hangs in a cloth shopping bag in the closet alongside other works of art.
Also about the time they moved to Birghorka the maker's marks were assigned. It was culture shock that Americans didn't just want them made pretty and unbreakable, they wanted to know which kami made it. And if it was a good job, they'd ask for more from that kami.
(We ought to send them a videotape citiquing each kami's work and send it back with Pala. Have Gelbu translate. That would be an absolute riot. Especially if the kamis could look over at one another and say - hey, that American was right on the nose on your work! )
Remember these are the untouchable caste - to have person after person get up and talk about good and bad of their work half a world away, and that different customers had differnt favorite kamis because of liking one's style or balance or handles. They'd practically all have near heart attacks.
Wish I could see a video of them reacting to our comments.
Shop I was contract, softer, but well finished.
Shop 2 was it became, an interim shop where Pala and Gelbu and eventually Bura tried to bring things up to snuff. High pine, tough, and blems all over.
Birghorka was where everything came together. The best khuks made in the world, hand forged, and some ineffable spirit in each of them* to boot!
* There is a spirit in each khuk that comes out of Birghorka - but it does not follow that any particular khuk will talk to you. It will find it's place in a trade or swap or as a gift.
kamagong
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2001
- Messages
- 10,565
There are a few ways to distinguish shop 1 knives. As mentioned already, shop 1 knives were not as pretty cosmetically, and did not have the higher pine of shop 2 or BirGorkha knives. They also had scrolled buttcaps, which were discontinued because they were difficult if not impossible to modify by the customer.
However, there are a couple of other ways to tell if you have a shop 1 knife. First, look at the karda and chakma. The kardas and chakmas that came with shop 1 khukuris are smaller than the ones being made today, and are of lesser quality. Second, examine the HI mark. Does it look like it was stamped or engraved? Shop 2 used to and BirGorkha still engraves their blades with the HI mark, while shop 1 used a stamp.
Then there are the dead giveaways that will let you know if you DO NOT have a shop 1 knife. If the scabbard of your khukuri came with an HI superfrog, then it is either a shop 1 or BirGorkha knife. If your khukuri has a habaki bolster, then it is definitely a BirGorkha product.
That is not to say that shop 1 knives don't have their charms. Unlike the kamis at BirGorkha, the kamis at shop 1 didn't stray that much from specs. If you ordered a BAS or a WWII, you had a better chance of getting a knife like the one on the website than you do now. Also, I like the proportions on the shop 1 blades more. If you follow the evolution of HI khukuris, you will notice that while OAL lengths have stayed the same, certain parts have gotten longer (i.e., the handle, bolster, and choil?) at the expense of the blade resulting in a shorter cutting edge. This does not affect performance any, but my personal sense of aesthetics prefers a shorter handle and longer blade. But then again I have relatively small hands compared to some of you.
Hope this helps.
However, there are a couple of other ways to tell if you have a shop 1 knife. First, look at the karda and chakma. The kardas and chakmas that came with shop 1 khukuris are smaller than the ones being made today, and are of lesser quality. Second, examine the HI mark. Does it look like it was stamped or engraved? Shop 2 used to and BirGorkha still engraves their blades with the HI mark, while shop 1 used a stamp.
Then there are the dead giveaways that will let you know if you DO NOT have a shop 1 knife. If the scabbard of your khukuri came with an HI superfrog, then it is either a shop 1 or BirGorkha knife. If your khukuri has a habaki bolster, then it is definitely a BirGorkha product.
That is not to say that shop 1 knives don't have their charms. Unlike the kamis at BirGorkha, the kamis at shop 1 didn't stray that much from specs. If you ordered a BAS or a WWII, you had a better chance of getting a knife like the one on the website than you do now. Also, I like the proportions on the shop 1 blades more. If you follow the evolution of HI khukuris, you will notice that while OAL lengths have stayed the same, certain parts have gotten longer (i.e., the handle, bolster, and choil?) at the expense of the blade resulting in a shorter cutting edge. This does not affect performance any, but my personal sense of aesthetics prefers a shorter handle and longer blade. But then again I have relatively small hands compared to some of you.
Hope this helps.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 1999
- Messages
- 34,096
Thanks for help. You've got it pegged pretty well.