Shop Cleanliness and Fire Safety Tips

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Augus7us

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Oct 9, 2014
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So I read recently about Larry Langdon's (of Quick and Dirty Tongs) shop burnt to the ground. I came across this through an instagram post that Bob Kramer responded to and mentioned a few safety tips that got me pondering shop safety and efficient ways to clean it.

Bob mentioned he had a shop fire himself and his comment read as if it was due to metal dust from grinding building up in the electrical outlets and shorting the circuit. That this dust could get into a number of my tools motors and electrical equipment had me concerned that over time this could be a problem.

In addition to the usual dust we all get from grinding I also have a ton of scale build up in various nooks and crannys of the shop from forging. It is not always easy to get to some of this, I can't just push a power hammer out of the way or put castors on it.

So you guys with bigger shops that grind and forge how do you go about cleaning this up?

I try to be diligent with the broom and shop vac but some of that scale just glues itself in place and it just isn't efficient walking up and down a 45' shop trying to vacuum behind heavy cast iron tools.

I'm going to be moving to a bigger shop soon and I will be looking at a dust collection system as one of my first purchases but even then its not an end all cure. So lets hear your tips and tricks for a spotless shop!

Thanks
-Clint


On a side note I would be devastated if my shop burnt to the ground and I feel for Larry and his team. If you feel inclined here is a link to a gofundme for him and his business.

https://www.gofundme.com/monstermetal
 
Last month I had the opportunity to hang out with J.R. Cook and Jerry Fisk in their shops. Both of these guys have gone to great lengths to fireproof their shops by putting in stone along the lower portion of the walls and under all their workbenches. Check out some youtube vids of Jerry to see what it looks like. I am getting ready to put up a partition wall around my forging area and I am probably going to install corrugated sheetmetal wainscoting and seal the bottom to the floor with fireproof caulk. For dust collection, J.R. actually had two collectors, one for metal and the other for everything else. He had a switching station that made changing from one to the other easy. Another consideration is replacing outlets in high dust areas with dust-proof outlets or putting covers over them.

Bob
 
I had a little fire start a couple months ago, I was doing a quick MIG weld, and a spark bounced about ten feet and found a bit of dry canvas. Couldn't figure out where the smoke was coming from, but caught it in time.
Main thing is to isolate sparky areas from any kind of storage, I think, and do a little puttering and cleanup after you're done grinding and such, just to give yourself time to notice any hazards, at the end of the day.
 
Thanks Bob, those are good tips. I've seen many photos and videos of Jerry's shop and always thought that nice stone work was for decoration. Good to know it doesn't just look good but also serves a purpose. Looks like some type of sheet metal for the walls will be a priority in the new shop.

I agree on isolation but what got me thinking is guys like Bob Kramer and Larry Langdon both have vast amounts of experience and shops pushing 10k square foot. If it could happen to them then what am I missing? The tip on dust getting into the outlets was great because I had never thought of that. I was fortunate enough to buy outlets that close when not in use to keep the dust out when I wired my current shop. But I do wonder what other bits of wisdom are out there.

Here's a link to the story if you're interested.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crews-battling-auburn-warehouse-fire/

In addition to tongs and many other items, Larry built some of the nicest forge presses out there and I was considering having him build one for me after I get the new shop. Sadly it will probably be a while before that is possible.

-Clint
 
Hey all I thought I would update this thread after hearing the Des Rosiers shop burnt down. Apparently it was due to quench oil catching fire and getting out of hand. This makes two nasty fires this year. I think its easy to forget how dangerous some of the stuff we do can actually be. Be safe out there guys...

Link to the thread in customs. Ben Tendick started a fund raiser on facebook.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1354863-DesRosiers-Shop-Lost-to-Fire

-Clint
 
It's a great reminder to have better quench tanks and lids that you can cover it with.

Plastic quench tanks are nfg.


Fire extinguishers need to be inspected and shaken up monthly/yearly


Powdered metals can burn and are difficult to extinguish.
There is a separate class D extinguisher.
They normally have 30 pounds of chenical, weigh 50 pound and cost $1000 dollars
Can your wife/kids pick that up and use it with one hand ?


You can get a normal 10 pound extinguisher filled with the class D powder
It may be silly if you don't need it, but if you do, then you really do.

cleanliness / shop hygiene is important.
Aluminum dust, titamium dust and oxidized iron dust all burn really really well.


I had a small fire with grinder sparks starting up a used rag.
It wasn't until I took the respirator off I could smell it.
I almost ignored it, but it's a good thing I finally found it before it flared up and before I left for the night.

It's a damn good application of Don Fogg's "The Way" for me to "sweep the floor" and tidy up at the end of the day.
 
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I had a little fire in my garage a while back. I had been working on some aluminum and had produced some really fine powder which I cleaned up... Or so I thought! Some of the powdered aluminum settled on a small ledge at the edge of my work bench unnoticed. While grinding with an angle grinder several sparks landed on that ledge, and bam! Instant termite! Luckily the amounts of aluminum and iron oxide were small, so it didn't have enough heat to burn through the bench or start a real fire, but it sure taught me about the importance of cleaning up my work area!
 
I always clean up after a session at the grinder. Fire extinguisher is right next to the bench and another by the garage door as well as 3 five gallon buckets of water by the grinder. The only thing that has the habit of catching fire in my garage is me.
 
I inadvertently made thermite several years ago... not fun... burnt a hole through my SS tank and 3 inches into my CONCRETE floor!

1. Dust management
2. Routine clean up at the end of the day.
3. Adequate barriers, shields and containers to deal with sparks, flare-ups, oily rags and dropped(hot) steel.
4. Proper/effective fire prevention/extinguishing equipment and detection devices.
5. Routine clean up at the end of the day. (yes, I listed it twice)
 
Canadian Building/Electrical Code dictates that all receptacles be of the new "tamper-resistant" variety. These would help with dust buildup, I imagine.

http://www.nfpa.org/safety-informat...rical/tamper-resistant-electrical-receptacles

Tamper%20Resistant%20Duplex%20Outlet.JPG
 
oh! I forgot!
don't put oily rags in anything combustible! Especially if you have been using Boiled Linseed Oil! BLO blows! Up that is!
put rags with BLO on them crumpled up and inside any container and you have a recipe for spontaneous combustion! it happened to some wildland fire fighters I worked with last year. They nearly burned down the engine bay! how embarrassing is that?!?
 
Boiled linseed oil is only self igniting if you have larger quantities of oil in big rags pressed and compressed together. High quantity of oil = more energy from chemical reaction. Big pack of rag= good insulation & high temperature inside.

As I prefer to have the oil on the handle instead in the garbage bin i use Q-tips for oiling handles since long time. Saves oil, and now risk of self combustion.
 
I had a fire in an industrial shop vac many years ago that scared me half to death. You cannot imagine how fast it took off and the amount of dense smoke it produced. The thing only burned for about 2 minutes.

Be sure to NEVER use a shop vac attached to any type of grinder without having a water spark trap between the grinder and the vac. I knew that, but just wanted to connect it for a second to clean up something quick ... you know the drill: Dumb idea ... but only for a sec. That was all it took.

Folks also need to be sure they have proper insurance to handle a fire. Chances are, if you only have normal homeowner's insurance it will not cover your knife making. Insurance companies are in business to collect premiums, not pay out claims and when they find out you were making and selling knives, they will deny your claim and you will be screwed. Yes, this insurance costs money. It's part of the costs you have in overhead when you operate a business and has to be built into your selling prices. If you have any doubts, ask your insurance agent. Trying to hide things from them will not work out if there is a fire and then it will be too late.
 
Does anyone use these magnifier lights ?


s0165121_sc7




The new ones come with flip up covers

It's because some fires have been with sunlight
 
Marquenching in oil is asking for trouble. That's quenching into a tank of oil near it's flash point ! I never recommend it !!

Titanium is popular in knife making but it's a great danger as when it burns it BURNS ! While many know of magnesium fires ,fewer know of titanium fires !! Special fire extinguishers for metal get them.Clean ti dust often. Ti dust can be mixed with sand when discarding Ti dust.
 
mete said:
Marquenching in oil is asking for trouble. That's quenching into a tank of oil near it's flash point ! I never recommend it !!

Titanium is popular in knife making but it's a great danger as when it burns it BURNS ! While many know of magnesium fires ,fewer know of titanium fires !! Special fire extinguishers for metal get them.Clean ti dust often. Ti dust can be mixed with sand when discarding Ti dust.
Click to expand...
speaking of timascus... where do you get that stuff.....
 
Welcome LittleGreyWolf. Fill out your profile so we know where you are and a bit about you.

Thos is an old thread. The last post was over six years ago. Look at the dates of threads you pull up.
Also, if you have a question not really related to a thread it is best to start a new thread with that topic.

Timascus can be easily found with a Google search. Alpha Knife supply carries it.
 
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