Shop Layout Question Round 2

A

Augus7us

Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
694
Hey Guys,

Some of you may remember me posting a few threads about remodeling my new to me shop. I've been spending most of my time on other sites learning a lot of construction stuff. I'm really enjoying it but I need to get back to the task at hand, which is making knives!!! Been over a year now since I've put steel to a grinder and I'm starting to have withdraw...

So help me out. As I've mentioned in the past I want this to be permanent so I have to get it right the first time. I have posted this and bounced this off of general "shop guys", you know gear heads, wood workers, hot rod guys, etc. They seem to think I'm wasting a lot of floor space but I don't think they understand how much dust you can generate making knives or the importance of a clean room.

So I'll break it down and you all tell me from a knife makers perspective what you would do. I.e. would you leave the whole thing an open floor or would you prefer to have rooms like I'm planning. This isn't a cost question so if you had the cash how would you do it?


Room 1: Future bathroom. I'm running pex for water and at some point I'd like to trench to my septic and plumb in a small shower and toilet, if I'm lucky I'll have room for a urinal (come one what guy doesn't want one in their shop :D )

Room 2: Offfice / Clean Room. This will be for a small office desk and paper work, computer etc and all my leather working tools and drafting or design stuff.

Room 3: Air Compressor and Dust Collection. Self explanatory, while I could eliminate this room I will just take up open floor space against the walls and also have to listen to the noise (I plan on soundproofing this room).

Room 4: Grinding room. I'd love for this to be bigger because as it stands I will have little to no room for future purchases to go in here. Currently an abrasive and cold cut saw, two grinders and a sufrace grinder will go in here. The door will be extra wide and have those hanging clear plastic strips the dairy section at the grocery uses.


I appreciate the input guys. Playing Bob Villa with this and the new house has got me burnt out. I need to get this done so I can decompress at the grinder!

-Clint

topdownmsr-07718 by Clint, on Flickr
 
mike-E said:
Have you considered keeping the ceilings low and building an upstairs?
Click to expand...

I'd like to but I only have 12' ceilings and factoring joists and support underneath would kill my ceiling height and my budget. As it stands I'll have storage space above the rooms but it will only be around 4' up there with 7.5' ceilings below. Plus that other site made me really want a lift, I thought they were like $10k, they are quite reasonable actually.

Spalted said:
I would switch the bathroom and office spots. So the office would be farther from the compressor noise.
Click to expand...

That would also cause me budget problems as I'd have to tear up a lot of concrete and freshly laid epoxy, which I am so done with epoxy, that shit gave me all kinds of fits and took two months to get down properly...

So if I'm not reading into this too far it sounds like you guys do prefer the rooms?
 
Definitely prefer dedicated/walled rooms. Make sure you seal up the floor/wall corners in your grinding room. Don't let metal dust build up behind the walls.
 
Upstairs storage will be very desirable. You have no storage for supplies and tools in the existing plan.
If this will only be a one floor shop, I would suggest putting the grinding room and compressor on the other end of the building, and putting a storeroom next to the office. Put the grinding room on one side of the roll-up door and the utility room on the other side. The center of the shop then would allow going into any other room easily. I wouldn't worry about the epoxy being in the forging area. Epoxy it all. It will make sweeping and vacuuming much easier, and cut down on moisture coming up through the slab.

Also if money isn't an object, I would go for 30X60', with an upstairs storage loft. That will also allow for a bigger office, with finished product storage.
Even if you stay with 30X40, put a loft ( Cape Cod upstairs with knee walls) in for storage. That would allow a bigger office downstairs. Some creative rearrangement of the rooms and such will allow for the stairwell. Of course, if money isn't a big deal, put in a simple 4'X4' freight elevator to go upstairs. Just move the office over and put it between the bath and the office.
 
Spalted said:
I would switch the bathroom and office spots. So the office would be farther from the compressor noise.
Click to expand...

I was going to say the exact same thing. plus you are keeping your "clean room" further away from your dust making stuff...
 
IMHO, with all the equipment you've planned for the grinding room, you're not going to have room "to cuss a cat". I also would have liked the office further, as in on the opposite end of the shop, from the compressor room. Moving the office to the opposing wall would kill 2 birds with one stone. It would allow you to move the compressor room to the current office location, and also enlarge the grindinding room a bit.
 
mike-E said:
Definitely prefer dedicated/walled rooms. Make sure you seal up the floor/wall corners in your grinding room. Don't let metal dust build up behind the walls.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike that is the confirmation I was looking for and I agree. I'll put some kind of cope base, plus I'll have visqueen and tape on the external walls for insulation and I may do that on the interior walls of the grinding room as well. Good idea!

If I remember right you're in cbus, if you want swing out to the country and talk knives I'm always up for that.

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Upstairs storage will be very desirable. You have no storage for supplies and tools in the existing plan.
If this will only be a one floor shop, I would suggest putting the grinding room and compressor on the other end of the building, and putting a storeroom next to the office. Put the grinding room on one side of the roll-up door and the utility room on the other side. The center of the shop then would allow going into any other room easily. I wouldn't worry about the epoxy being in the forging area. Epoxy it all. It will make sweeping and vacuuming much easier, and cut down on moisture coming up through the slab.

Also if money isn't an object, I would go for 30X60', with an upstairs storage loft. That will also allow for a bigger office, with finished product storage.
Even if you stay with 30X40, put a loft ( Cape Cod upstairs with knee walls) in for storage. That would allow a bigger office downstairs. Some creative rearrangement of the rooms and such will allow for the stairwell. Of course, if money isn't a big deal, put in a simple 4'X4' freight elevator to go upstairs. Just move the office over and put it between the bath and the office.
Click to expand...

Lol Stacy, I'd love to do all that but that is way outside my budget. The building was already built when I bought the house, in fact its why I bought the house. But its just a post building with four walls and a pad. I'm going to insulate it and add the rooms, I budgeted for that. Otherwise I would add a lean too on for the forging area and additional storage but I don't have the cash to do that and run new power and all the other stuff I have to do to get it up to snuff.

What's not in the plans I drew up and attached are all the benches and tool boxes I will build in the lower right hand section (starting at the end of the grinding room and along that wall). I will have multiple tool boxes and cabinets there for my tools, while car parts, lumber and that kind of "less utilized" stuff will go up stairs in the long term storage. This will also eliminate the need for any open shelving on the first floor, hate that stuff, it just collects dust and ends up holding all the crap you don't want to organize.

Here's the little visio type layout I did on grizzly's site. Not at all accurate but something I threw together real quick.

Layout_r1 by Clint, on Flickr

A.McPherson said:
I was going to say the exact same thing. plus you are keeping your "clean room" further away from your dust making stuff...
Click to expand...

I would but as I mentioned earlier I don't want to cut up that much concrete to run the plumbing. Plus the grinder room will be sealed and hopefully contain what the dust collector doesn't eat up.

Axeman58 said:
IMHO, with all the equipment you've planned for the grinding room, you're not going to have room "to cuss a cat". I also would have liked the office further, as in on the opposite end of the shop, from the compressor room. Moving the office to the opposing wall would kill 2 birds with one stone. It would allow you to move the compressor room to the current office location, and also enlarge the grindinding room a bit.
Click to expand...

I have similar concerns but according to my measurements it should fit. Worst case scenario the surface grinder goes out on the floor. I'm going to use sound proofing insulation for the compressor room and it shouldn't be running nonstop but I figured that small room is better than saving a few square feet and having the stuff out on the open floor.


If I was building from scratch and after now having had two shops (750sq ft and 1200 sq ft) for me the sweet spot would be around 2400 sq ft. Which is what i tried to buy but the market in Columbus is insane and only getting crazier. If I make this house a retired hot rod or wood workers paradise then down the road I may be able to sell it and upgrade. For now I have to make this one work and trust me I'm not complaining. I love it out here and I can't wait to get the new shop up and running.

Thanks guys and keep it coming, I knew other knifemakers would understand my vision ;)

-Clint
 
If space is a concern in the grinding room already, and you plan on adding machines, why not hang up a curtain wall? It would be easy to expand later if needed. Once you settle in you can always add studs and sheetrock later.
 
Randy3000 said:
If space is a concern in the grinding room already, and you plan on adding machines, why not hang up a curtain wall? It would be easy to expand later if needed. Once you settle in you can always add studs and sheetrock later.
Click to expand...

I have 12' ceilings and that would destroy my OCD :)

I'm going to get some of the smaller ones on wheels, the screens I think, for my forging area. I went with a 9' x 18' forging area and while I think that is enough for me and my gear, I don't think its enough to ensure weld splatter and hot flux doesn't destroy my epoxy. And I can move the welding screens out of the way to satisfy my OCD!

I'll try and post a pic for you guys of where it stands today. While a pain in the ass the epoxy did turn out nice and I have a hard time believing this is my shop. I busted my butt for this!

-Clint
 
Spalted said:
I would switch the bathroom and office spots. So the office would be farther from the compressor noise.
Click to expand...

A.McPherson said:
I was going to say the exact same thing. plus you are keeping your "clean room" further away from your dust making stuff...
Click to expand...

I was going to say the exact same thing.

Augus7us said:
I would but as I mentioned earlier I don't want to cut up that much concrete to run the plumbing. Plus the grinder room will be sealed and hopefully contain what the dust collector doesn't eat up.

Thanks guys and keep it coming, I knew other knifemakers would understand my vision ;)

-Clint
Click to expand...

You asked for it to keep coming, so I'd say if you were thinking about switching them but decided not to for the above reasons, unless money is a concern, I'd take the time and effort to go through the extra to put the bathroom in the middle. The worst thing that will happen is you will put in a bit more time and effort to get up and going. If you don't, you'll most likely wish you would have at some time in the future. Do it now while it's easy.
 
Augus7us said:
Room 4: Grinding room. . . .The door will be extra wide and have those hanging clear plastic strips the dairy section at the grocery uses.
Click to expand...

I almost forgot, if this is the plan for your grinding room door, you will want the office as far away as possible. In my limited experience, unless you have a good enough air moving/handling system, you'll get grinding dust in any room that doesn't have a door that will close completely.
 
is your compressor use continuous or occasional?
you might want to be aware of that room getting hot with the compressor.
this happened at a machine shop we setup but the compressor was continuous for the CNC machines.

Might not be an issue for you but just throwing it our there.
 
Thanks Billy. And yes I did ask for feedback so I do appreciate it even if its not something I can see through to fruition. It gives me ideas for my next shop if nothing else.

To be clear I'm not trying to be argumentative in regards to the office, I am in complete agreement with you all on where it should be located. Its just something I can't change. It would require ripping up too much concrete and redoing too much epoxy. I also couldn't afford to do what I've shared with you guys and rip out concrete and run the plumbing rough ins for the bathroom. Doing it this way gets my shop finished and online sooner and doesn't require I spend money on concrete work and plumbing up front. Running a sink and toilet next to the wall as it is will also require minimum concrete and epoxy work.

If I had the money, there are quite a few things I would do differently. But with the budget I have this is what I've come up with so far. I'm building this to be my dream shop with the hope that I will move one more time in life and upgrade to a shop at least 2000 sq ft and do it up the way I want after learning lessons with this one. I'm not sure on the epoxy for example, but I fell in love with it after seeing it on another site in a lot of shops. According to the guy I got it from it will withstand about everything but fire, which I planned for. But if it doesn't work out, I won't do it down the road. Same with the rooms and such. My hope is it all comes together like I have it in my minds eye and all I'll want to do when its done, is come home from work and head out to the shop. If not I'll make some changes or deal with it until I move for fix it. And with the input I've gotten from you all here and elsewhere I think its going to be a cool place to make knives and work on projects.

-Clint
 
Keep that truck out of it, and you'll have a lot more room!
 
My shop I built is 20x40 and not near big enough. 30x60 will be the next one I do when we move but if I was going to have room for a truck/car I would go at least 40 wide.
 
make the grinder/dirty room bigger. i would add a contractor 10" table saw, a 9" band saw, table top drill press and a 12" planer.
 
It's four years too late, but my two cents

Put the dust collection and air compressor outside in it's own lean to - as close to the grinding area as possible
then use that space as grinding room also
What if you want a lapping machine, tumbler, disc grinder, dedicated horizontal grinder, blasting cabinet.

Put a door to the bathroom from the shop, or you will walk through the clean office area everytime and the office/clean room is no longer clean.

Put a sink in the main shop area so you have a way to clean up - like ferric acid etching - without trucking everything in and out of the clean room bathroom.

Allow for a clean machining area

Pull airflow out of the dirty side so grit will not drift into the clean side.

More windows, make the roll up door one of those clear ones - a garage door sized skylight.
 
I would not "hide" either the air compressor or the dust collector.

How often will you drain the water out of an air compressor that you have to leave the room to get to? Really truly? For less than $30 you can buy an intake air filter/muffler that will help a little with the noise, or you can spend some money on a quiet air compressor. Then it can be in the same room and not out-of-sight...

Same with the dust collection, a muffler on the outflow really helps with sound. If a fire starts in the drum or filter, I'd rather be able to see and smell the smoke ASAP
 
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