Shop tip:don't buy junk

Matt Shade

Matt Shade

Joined
Nov 24, 1999
Messages
4,981
I went to one of those discount tool sales. Cummins, been to em before and they have some decent stuff mixed in for decent prices amid all the trash.
I found hacksaw blades in boxes of 100 for $9. I thought what the hell and bought a box.
Well I just tried them out this afternoon. I cut out an 8-1/2" OAL hunter, the pattern was almost as wide as the bar of steel so I only had a few angled cuts and then one long cut to make. It took TEN!....10! BLADES The teeth stripped off so damn fast that I didn't even bother walking over to the trash can with them. They piled up on the floor 3 times as fast as the cut offs.
The steel I was cutting was Timken O1 from toolanddie.com (highly recommended if your needing steel). Not hard by any means. I don't think I'm even gonna finish the box of blades, its not worth the hassle.
Tommorrow I'm going to the hardware store and buy a dozen starret blades. I can cut multiple knives out with one starret blade. I didn't think it was possible for them to be 200 times better than the cummins blades, and its not. They're more like 400 times better than the cummings blades.

I don't even want to open the pack of 4x36 belts I got now. I'm betting they're crap too :barf:
 
I don't know who first came up with this quote but it bears repeating. "Buy quality and only cry once."
 
I'll use a quote by someone else, whose name I can't remember, but it fits me to a "T", and I go along with it completely.

"I'm too poor to buy cheap.
Buy proven equipment once and you're set for a lifetime, buy cheap, and you'll get to buy it again.
Life is too short to mess with questionable gear." :eek: ;)
 
That's funny,
I just got back from one of those crap Cummins tool sales at the local fairgrounds.
Everybody in sight had an armful of things. I was the only one that walked out of there with nothing.
Well, OK, I DID walk out with a 5-pack of electrical tape for $.95

What can I say, I couldn't help myself...

Crummins = DOG PILE OF CRAP...
 
At least I now know Im not the only sucker to buy that crap. I almost got hit in the face by a broken ball peen hammer :eek: . I never in my life seen the head of a hammer fly off of the hammer itself.. :eek: :eek: When I looked at the two peices of the hammer It looked like cast iron.
 
I buy their 4" metal cutoff wheels for my DeWalt offset grinder. They work just as well as the $2.00 apiece ones at Home Depot. The vises seem OK to me, too.
 
Matt,

At best, you didn't get hurt using those blades. My boss use to supply me with blades like thoses until he realized. The job was losing money from just changing blade to cut conduit.

Jeff
 
I feel that way with just about anything I buy. Boots, clothing, tools, knives, and so on. You end up spending almost the same when you buy cheap crap because it just doesn't last. I buy Justin's original work boots, and I'm still wearing them after almost four years! I'm hard on boots at work. The same with my coat, Carhartt, bought it in 1989 and I'm still wearing it. So goes the same with knifemaking tools and equipment. Those made in China hacksaw blades strip teeth cutting aluminum. :barf: I buy quality or I don't buy it, period.
Scott
 
Ya get what ya pay for, the only thing I buy from them is the 6'X8' tarps at $0.99 each I buy 5 everytime and just store them away till I need 'em.

If they get lost or torn who cares they were $0.99 each.

I keep one in all the vehicles for emergencies.
 
You have to be careful ~IF~ you ever do buy something made in the Pacific Rim. Obviously, many of us have junk drill presses and horizontal saws, but there are real dangers out there, and you have to exercise some wisdom when you come in contact with these crappy products.

One guy here in my town had his truck up on some cheapo chinese-made jack-stands. One broke and the whole thing came down, crushing his skull and killing him instantly. The mourning family tried to sue the maker of the jack stands, but the distributors, wholesalers, resellers, and manufactiring facilities of these products are cleverly layered - away from litigation. They are still trying after six years. Sad stuff.

There are deals to be had, but you get what you pay for in the end.
 
also try a Lennox H-318, I think that's the one. They're the bomb. I used to have to do the hacksaw thing too and the Lennox blades just plain kicked ass... They are different from others I"ve seen in one particular aspect: they have one tooth angled left, followed by one straight, then one angled right. None of that "curvey swervy" trash. They cut like the devil...


mitch
 
Razorback - Knives said:
I feel that way with just about anything I buy. Boots, clothing, tools, knives, and so on. You end up spending almost the same when you buy cheap crap because it just doesn't last. I buy Justin's original work boots, and I'm still wearing them after almost four years! I'm hard on boots at work. The same with my coat, Carhartt, bought it in 1989 and I'm still wearing it. So goes the same with knifemaking tools and equipment. Those made in China hacksaw blades strip teeth cutting aluminum. :barf: I buy quality or I don't buy it, period.
Scott
Click to expand...

I'm a fan of carhart clothes and justin boots too. I get 2-3 years out of a pair of boots, and I wear them all day everyday. Carhart coats are good for 5-6 years usually, and coveralls might last 3. I'm awful hard on stuff though.


Hey Mitch
I'll have to try the lennox blades. I really like the Starret blades, but the lennox sound good too if I can find some locally. My dad had one the other day, but it was too long for the hacksaw frame I have. I'll have to find out where he got it and what sizes they have.



I think the main reason I bought anything at all is because my buddy an I were the last 2 guys at the sale and we wandered around for an hour pointing out junk and playing with the tools. The sales guy ended up following us around trying to talk us into buying some stuff. He was so full of ****, and was trying so hard I that I could barely keep from laughing. In the end I was gonna feel really bad about not buying anything at all. I figured at 8 cents a peice or whatever it was that it didn't matter if the hacksaw blades weren't that good. I just didn't realize they could be THAT bad :eek:

I do think that there is stuff worth buying at the cummins sales. They had a full line of rigid tools, which are pretty good stuff anymore. You have to remember that they're cheaper because they only give you one battery, or not all the accessories though in the kits. I don't buy any of the cheap stuff unless its things that I consider disposable, and after this I probably won't even do that again. I'd never buy anything that has the potential to be dangerous. Some of the O/A torches and stuff they had there were downright scarey in how sloppy the fittings were!
 
Just a few thoughts about buying cheap tools and consumables.

A few years back I bought a bench-drill press from Harbor. It was a total hunk of junk. The chuck was really hard to press on the arbor(more than necessary), and once assembled, the motor didn't work, it only buzzed. Sent it back , got a replacement and decided to try the motor before I assembled it. To my suprise the motor worked, but it worked 'so well' that it actually sprayed sparks out of the motor housing. Understandably, it was sent back for good, and I bought a small Delta drill press. For not even double the money, the delta is easily 3x the tool. I use it often, easy to change speeds, and bits. Worth every cent.

The other thing that really made me want to reply was something that shgeo said, about buying cheap cut off wheels. That IMO is a quick way to cut yourself open(or someone else standing nearby).
I work in a Sculptors Studio. The work is Stainless Steel and Silicon Bronze for the most part. a few pieces of mild steel here and there. When a sculpture doesn't look quite right, it gets cut apart and re-worked. This is where I've had a few close calls(and another employee as well). We used to always use norton and 3m cut off and grinding wheels. In the last 6 months or so, the quality has gone down(norton specifically), while costs have gone up. This coupled with the fact that the best norton wheels shatter and it's damn scary when they go flying. The wheels are not spun too fast(we have variable spped grinders), nor pinched in the cut(which will make any wheel shatter). The other guy working told me that the 'new' wheels are junk, and I kinda didn't belive him.,I thought that mabye he wasn't really paying attention.
Well, he was right. there was a kid in the shop who completly welded a wall work to one of our tables(instead of just tacking it down) and subsquently got fired(for taht and other things). the wall work sat welded to the table for a few months, until we needed the space, and I thought it would be a great chance to use one of the new wheels. Well let me tell you, almost as soon as I touched the first one to the metal, it started to wobble like crazy. I thought that mabye I didn't tighten it properly(not likely) and when it spun to a stop I could see the center of the wheel has disenegrated. I mean nothing left at all! I tried another, with bigger fittings( nuts/ locks, whatever those nuts are called!). I thought that with more surface holding the wheel, it wouldn't break like that again. after about 12" of cutting, BANG! the thing broke in 3 pieces. good thing no one was nearby! I tried a third one and after it broke I decided that I didn't want a trip to the ER, so I quit cutting.

This forced us to look for other brands. I tried a few of the 'newest tech' wheels I could find. The only one(well 2 were alright) that really worked great was the Saitech wheels from United Abrasives. ( the other ones that worked ok were the new 3m wheels)They are only 1mm thick and cut great. They also last at least 3x or 4x as long as any other cutter I've seen. I think that is due to the fact they are only cutting 1mm of material instead if 1/8" or more, and the wheels are made of fiberglass of some sort in a woven patten, instead of the pressed junk you buy for $.01 on the $1.oo.

We also just started to use their grinding wheels and large cut off for the chop saw. They are completly worth the extra buck or so, they last much longer, and are WAY safer to use. I think that if you compared the mass amount of cheap wheels used to do the same work as one good wheel, and the time spent changing the wheels(as mentioned above about changing blades) the good ones actually end up being more cost effective.

I think that everyone here can relate to the above in one way or another.I know I'm preaching to the choir here(and I'm a newb here in addition!), but I really think this is a very important issue.
Just the thought of a belt breaking and wrapping itself around yourself is a frightening idea. not worth saving a few cents IMHO.

I'm just looking into making a few blades, and I want to do it the right way(safe way). I have an old baldor 4" belt sander, and am saving up for a decent 2" belt sander before I even think of trying my hand.

anyways, after my rant, I think that Tom and Mike said it best in the 2nd and 3rd replies.


Mordachai
 
My late dear departed Dad always said - " always buy tools as if yer life depended on it " - cause it might !!!!!
He was a tool and die-maker, and he knew what he was talking about.. ;);)
Winter well
flashinthepan
 
I got caught with cheap blades years ago and learned the hard way.

I still think there are some bargain out there is you look at the item for sale. Drill presses and band saws drill vicdes etc. If you look at a quality hand made knife v a $2 factory knife you can see the quality. Same with tools to a certain extent. You need to look at the fit and precision.

A local company here started up with a flash and a bang. They bought a few pallets full of electric hand drills and grinders. They sold them for $10 each. I bought 2 of each. They were just a crowd drawer. They were far better quality than $10 I paid. As with a lot of those discount stores now they sell buckets full of junk.

My dill is working great and so is my grinder 12 months latter. What the hel if it breaks I have another under the bed.
 
I use the 10" bimetal hacksaw blades from Lowe's. They're a few bucks but last forever. I cut steel, titanium, G-10, carbon fiber, Micarta, whatever and they just keep going and going and going.
 
Matt Shade said:
I'm a fan of carhart clothes and justin boots too. I get 2-3 years out of a pair of boots, and I wear them all day everyday. Carhart coats are good for 5-6 years usually, and coveralls might last 3. I'm awful hard on stuff though.











QUOTE]
Yes sirree, you do know quality. :D I bought a china made vise many years ago at junk shop Ollies. It was a pretty hefty vise. While I was using it a few months ago, the fricken jaws cracked! :grumpy: I was tightening it on a piece of steel when it happened. I bought a Wilton vise to replace that piece of junk.
Scott
Click to expand...
 
Hmm.... Here for the farm work I buy the cheap $8 a pack of 5 shrinkwrapped blades for the 115mm angle grinder. they're made of the woven fiberglass stuff metioned in a post above and work great, never had one break, crack or wobble, and I use them until they are so low they won't reach deep enough to cut through the thickness of metal they're being used on. While we may not do as much on a farm as an inductrial workshop, I noted the local garage uses the same cheap brand in their large 200mm+ angle grinder.

I guess NZ's minimum specs allowed for cuttign and grinding disks must be higher than The states, cause I've never yet in Mitre 10, Placemakers, Bunnings, or other hardware stores met pressed junk, they've all been woven glass matting with embedded abrasives or very solid moulded disks.
 
First of all, I would like to thank you guys for sharing your experiences and wisdom. I too believe in buying quality the first time around. Mom thinks this is funny as this leads to the juxtoposition of new quality items, and dumpster treasures because I save money either way.
I am a fan of Carhartt shorts. In the future I plan to by other products from that "Made in America" company.

And now the Picture, from my collection of pics from the net:
A Cheap Chinese size Q drill twist bit after an attempt at using it; the silly thing twisted even more!
1zhglw
http://tinypic.com/1zhglw
 
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