Should a Custom Knife Warranty be for the Original buyer only?

[Don Hanson III]

I warranty my knives, doesn't matter who owns them.

I rarely charge for a fluff and buff, unless it's excessive.

 

[jjtjr]

I agree that the maker should warranty the knife no matter who owns it. The exception would be obvious abuse.

 

[braillediver]

What John White said. That's why I want a Custom Knife- because of the Pride put into it by the Maker.

If the Maker doesn't gaurantee it for it's life regardless of the owner I'd like to know up front since I will not buy it. Obviously not when abused.

I've contacted 2 makers about prettying up a 2nd or 3rd hand knife of theirs. I offered to pay since it seemd reasonable. They both eagerly offered to clean it up at no cost if I just paid the shipping both ways.


Mitch

 

[Gossman Knives]

I agree with what has been said, "do it right the first time and it won't come back". There are unavoidable issues such as natural handle material movement that happens because natural materials are unstable depending on what they are and what enviroment then have been exposed to. On of the worst is horn sometimes wood. I always make the potential customer aware of different issues such as these when they are choosing handle material. I still will fix the problem if it arises due to handle material issues no matter what the cause.
Scott

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Most makers honor the knife as being covered under normal use , which is amazing when you consider you can buy a new motorcycle for $10K and only get a 2 year warranty , or a new car and only get 3 years ( some 5 , some 10 ) , yet knifemakers ( MOST) will honor their work for as long as they are making knives.

Normal wear & tear from use is expected , everything wears with use. Like Kevin , I wouldn't expect a maker to honor fixing it if I bought it second hand , though the majority of makers will offer to.

Maybe it's about time we hold the rest of the manufacturing world to the same level/conditions of warranty as we expect to hold knifemakers to. Oh wait , Dillon Precision offers a warranty of LIFETIME no BS

 

[sdodson]

I do mostly pure custom work; sit down with a customer and discuss shapes, steel types, handle material and construction. I prefer and push the customer toward a bullet-proof construction, such as pinned and soldered guards, micarta or G10, and corbys. On occasion I have people insist on one of the fragile synthetics, like polyester pearl, for a working knife. I warn them and include in the spec sheet, that I include with every knife, that this handle material will crack if dropped on a hard surface. I have had three of these knifes returned for handle repair. I have fixed them without cost and used micarta on all of them.

Now had a second party returned the same knife I would probably not fix the handle for free. First, the original customer chose, with adequate warning and understanding, a handle material with limitations. It is a stretch to expect me to cover problems that subsequently develop because of this choice, but I do because want to keep my clients happy. On the other hand I would have real problems if a secondary buyer presented the same issue. In fact was this buyer even informed of the limitations? His recourse my be with the primary buyer.

On occasion I make spec knives and sell them. These are absolutely tank proof and I have no problem backing them for life. It's when people insist on things that are not compatible with a lifetime trouble free use that I have problems providing a lifetime warrenty to all subsequent owners.

The easy answer to this is to just tell customers that you just won't do certain things or make them a knife out of certain materials. I now will only use micarta or stabilized wood and will not sell my forged damascus to anyone who can't grasp the concept of rust.

 

[SteelSnob]

I won't buy a knife from someone who only covers the original owner. That says I've made my money and screw standing behind my product IMO.

 

[castor0troy]

it wont be fair if only the first buyer gets to enjoy the warranty.
nah!

 

[Kevin Jones]

I do mostly pure custom work; sit down with a customer and discuss shapes, steel types, handle material and construction. I prefer and push the customer toward a bullet-proof construction, such as pinned and soldered guards, micarta or G10, and corbys. On occasion I have people insist on one of the fragile synthetics, like polyester pearl, for a working knife. I warn them and include in the spec sheet, that I include with every knife, that this handle material will crack if dropped on a hard surface. I have had three of these knifes returned for handle repair. I have fixed them without cost and used micarta on all of them.

Now had a second party returned the same knife I would probably not fix the handle for free. First, the original customer chose, with adequate warning and understanding, a handle material with limitations. It is a stretch to expect me to cover problems that subsequently develop because of this choice, but I do because want to keep my clients happy. On the other hand I would have real problems if a secondary buyer presented the same issue. In fact was this buyer even informed of the limitations? His recourse my be with the primary buyer.

On occasion I make spec knives and sell them. These are absolutely tank proof and I have no problem backing them for life. It's when people insist on things that are not compatible with a lifetime trouble free use that I have problems providing a lifetime warrenty to all subsequent owners.

The easy answer to this is to just tell customers that you just won't do certain things or make them a knife out of certain materials. I now will only use micarta or stabilized wood and will not sell my forged damascus to anyone who can't grasp the concept of rust.

I'm confused by your final comment as forged Damascus steel is less susceptible to rust than carbon steel.

 

[Steven Kelly]

As Tom said above.. This is a bit of a loaded question.. I warranty my knives for my lifetime. As long as I feel they were used and treated like a knife is supposed to be used and treated. I also put limitations on some of my knives warranties based on particular materials used. If a customer insists he wants Bighorn Sheep used on the handle of a working hunter that is going to be subjected to adverse conditions. I will explain to them that it is not a recommended handle material for that application and will probably shift or warp over time. I can not be responsible for the outcome of a relatively unstable material. If that person still wants to use the material, he should understand the situation. Now, if that person sells the piece on the secondary market and the material fails after that transaction has taken place, who should be responsible for the condition of the knife????
As a side note to that example, I recently had a knife come back to me that I put sheep horn on about 9 years ago. The horn had begun to pull away from the handle. The customer was the original owner and asked me if I could do anything to help fix the problem. He offered to pay whatever cost was incurred. I removed the handles, flattened them back up and replaced them. I also polished up the blade took out some dings in the bolsters and re-oiled the sheath. When he got it back, he commented that the knife was as nice as the day he got it new. When I told him there was no charge for the repairs, he could hardly believe it.
The point here is that I chose to repair the knife at no charge because I take pride in my work and don't want a crappy looking knife floating around with my name on it. But, there should not be an expectation from the customer that I owe it to them because my name is on the knife.
Now, if a knife comes back to me that is in obvious good condition that has failed for whatever reason because of poor workmanship. It will repair or replace it free of charge every time. No matter how many owners there have been.
That's my policy!! Just be honest and upfront with me about what happened and I WILL make it right. I want my customers to feel they are buying an heirloom quality knife from me. When they are done with it, I want them to be able to hand it down to their kids and grandkids.

 

[robcelani]

Bringing this back up. Couple years old but an interesting topic of discussion to me.

I'm new to knife collecting, about 1.5 years and am just getting into custom knives. I noticed most makers that posted said they warranty the knife no matter the owner. That makes sense to me and I believe is similar to many (Knife) production companies.

I read some discussion about warranties of other products. There were some good arguments that in a lot of situations a product is only warrantied to the original owner. I understand that reasoning but does that apply to custom items?

Leaving names out I want to talk about 2 knives I purchased in my brief collecting career.

One of my favorite production companies accepted a knife back I purchased on the secondary market. The knife was carried and used. No major abuse but it did have a lot of play when it was closed and needed to be sharpened. I sent it back, the blade play was fixed, knife sharpened and returned back to me. When I asked about payment I was told no charge. Their service made me a loyal customer for life.

A couple months ago I purchased my first real custom knife. Maker I really like and wanted a knife from. I bought it on the secondary market and paid what I consider a large amount of $ for it. The maker is currently not making this particular style of knife so my options were limited to the secondary market. After I buy the knife I get in contact with the maker and ask about his warranty. He directs me to his website where I read that he warranties his knives only to the original purchaser. When I ask about cost for repairs, etc., he tells me cost is minimal but doesn't give me any real numbers.

I really like this makers work but that warranty thing annoys me. I can buy a knife for less than a hundred bucks and the production company is taking care of the knife and building my loyalty to the brand. I spend over a grand on a custom knife and if it needs any work I gotta pay for it. I'm not gonna carry the knife so it's not getting abused. I doubt it will ever need any work done on it but it might. His policy really turned me off and made me question owning his knives.

Don't want to rant and wine so I'm gonna stop. Just want to say: I think in a competitive knife market a warranty is a chance to build customer loyalty or send a customer to another maker or company.

 

[Slider817]

Loaded question..............

I have a pretty much no questions asked warranty....but I have gotten knives back that have been SERIOUSLY abused by people and then sold to other unsuspecting customers who want it fixed.......

So my answer is ......YES.......but!!!!

This scenario is basically the only time I have retuned a knife to a maker for repair. Dishonest or lazy sellers that did not describe the condition accurately.

And with your knives as hard to get as they are, the secondary market is the only way to get them.

 

[Slider817]

Bringing this back up. Couple years old but an interesting topic of discussion to me.

I'm new to knife collecting, about 1.5 years and am just getting into custom knives. I noticed most makers that posted said they warranty the knife no matter the owner. That makes sense to me and I believe is similar to many (Knife) production companies.

I read some discussion about warranties of other products. There were some good arguments that in a lot of situations a product is only warrantied to the original owner. I understand that reasoning but does that apply to custom items?

Leaving names out I want to talk about 2 knives I purchased in my brief collecting career.

One of my favorite production companies accepted a knife back I purchased on the secondary market. The knife was carried and used. No major abuse but it did have a lot of play when it was closed and needed to be sharpened. I sent it back, the blade play was fixed, knife sharpened and returned back to me. When I asked about payment I was told no charge. Their service made me a loyal customer for life.

A couple months ago I purchased my first real custom knife. Maker I really like and wanted a knife from. I bought it on the secondary market and paid what I consider a large amount of $ for it. The maker is currently not making this particular style of knife so my options were limited to the secondary market. After I buy the knife I get in contact with the maker and ask about his warranty. He directs me to his website where I read that he warranties his knives only to the original purchaser. When I ask about cost for repairs, etc., he tells me cost is minimal but doesn't give me any real numbers.

I really like this makers work but that warranty thing annoys me. I can buy a knife for less than a hundred bucks and the production company is taking care of the knife and building my loyalty to the brand. I spend over a grand on a custom knife and if it needs any work I gotta pay for it. I'm not gonna carry the knife so it's not getting abused. I doubt it will ever need any work done on it but it might. His policy really turned me off and made me question owning his knives.

Don't want to rant and wine so I'm gonna stop. Just want to say: I think in a competitive knife market a warranty is a chance to build customer loyalty or send a customer to another maker or company.

Very Good Point,
It has nothing to do with right or wrong, if a custom maker wantS to build confidence in his knives, then they should warrantee the knife. It's a business decision, and I would not spend money on a knife that wasn't warranted, especially a pricey custom. But I use my knives, not abuse, but I want to know that I won't be throwing out my $1000 ever.

 

[The Amazing Virginian]

My warranty on workmanship is good as long as I'm still alive and kicking. As with the other makers here, that's my name on the blade, and my reputation goes with it, from owner to owner.

Additionally, I've encouraged collectors who've sold or traded my knives to ship them through me if there was any "fluff and buff" needed even, from normal wear. I had one such knife, originally bought through a dealer, purchased by a third party, and shipped to me for re-finish. The knife had obviously at some point, been scratched, and then buffed. It took me only a little while to put an original rubbed finish back on the blade at no charge. How much better an ambassador is that knife for my workmanship, and how much is that worth to me?

I'll bet that this is the way almost every custom maker feels about their work, not to mention many high end manufacturors. The poll seems to be bearing this out.

John

I warranty my knives, doesn't matter who owns them.

I rarely charge for a fluff and buff, unless it's excessive.

Now THESE are makers that I want to do business with. :thumbup:

That having been said . . . I voted that the warranty should only apply to original owner - like for most other products. Actually, I really believe that the warranty should be for only a fixed period of years - say 10 or 20 years - regardless of owner. But that wasn't one of the options.

I'm confused by your final comment as forged Damascus steel is less susceptible to rust than carbon steel.

Yes, but I suspect that the VAST majority of knives that are bought by folks outside of the custom knife collector community are STAINLESS and therefore the expectations of most folks (again, outside of the custom knife collector community) and especially novice custom knife buyers regarding rust would be that knives generally do not rust, and therefore if you bought a knive and it rusts then there must be something wrong with it.

In other words, the relevant comparison is not Damascus versus carbon, but Damascus versus stainless. Anyway, that's just my guess.

 

[Bruce Bump]

I havent had to repair any yet except a spine that had hammer marks on it once. I clean and refinish one every now and then for just shipping. I dont keep exact records and wouldnt think of arguing with anybody, if it has my name on it I would cover it, doesnt matter if he is the original owner. Never seen one broken anyway but If I ever do I'd be surprised and call it abuse, Its a knife not a pry-bar so I hope he wouldnt expect to get another one free. I'm the only guy thats ever abused one of my knives that I know of. Sharpenings are free forever too as long as I can shuffle out to the shop.
I did once replace a fine damascus bowie from a defect in a weld.

 

[eisman]

A warranty and a guarantee are not the same thing. To guarantee something is to assume responsibility for the quality or performance of the item. To warranty something is to attest to its quality (and the quality of any guarantee).

I believe that an individual (or company) should provide a guarantee that covers the products manufactured. But, that guarantee is "at time of delivery” and within specific parameters. Poorly thought out guarantees’ can destroy a business.

An example: Browning once issued a lifetime guarantee to the original purchasers of certain firearms (their Superposed shotguns were one model). Due to a problem in the manufacture (poor materials) they basically went bankrupt trying to replace the better part of 10 years production when the defect became noticeable. The issue was compounded by the problem of second-hand sales, failure of owners to register their purchase (part of the warranty process), and unscrupulous dealers who took advantage of the issue (to the point of forging documents to obtain "free" repairs).

Any contract must be between the seller and the buyer. If you purchase an item from the maker you have recourse to them, provided the issue meets the terms of the guarantee; and if you make the purchase from another individual than your recourse should be thru them unless the manufacturer grants you the privilege of coming back to them directly by warranty.

A manufacturer must set limits to his liability. It's imperative that all aspects be considered. If someone commissions a knife with horn scales, and then takes it to Florida where it spends several years, but then sells it to a person who takes it to Arizona and leaves it in the garage for a couple more years, it reasonable that the maker should replace the now poorly fitting scales? Of course not, but I know you'll be asked to do such things if you do not specify the limits of your guarantee.

If your house burns down you'll not get any help replacing your appliances from Maytag, or your furniture from IKEA, or your tools from Ryobi; so why expect the man who made your knife to replace it without compensation for time and materials? And, as the manufacturer, why would you take on such work? The guarantee is against defects in work and materials, nothing more.

 

[Lorien]

I have a large bowie knife, made by a Japanese maker, with a laminated blade. The overall length of the knife is about 16-17" with about 10 1/2" of 1/4" or more of steel thickness.

You'd think such a large knife, with so much forward mass, would be designed for heavy use. Well, I've used this knife lots with no problems, and appreciate the keen edge it has.
Yesterday, I spent the day out working on the trail and was hacking and chopping through all sorts of stuff as per usual- no chopping of frozen fir for example- mostly spindly stuff and branches up to about 1" in diameter.

I cleaned it up a bit and put it away last night, and this morning, while polishing out the little spots of corrosion, I noticed a not insignificant dent along the edge. It's about 1cm in length.

The knife is not broken, and is still servicable. However, the dent remains.

Would you say that this is abuse related damage, or a flaw in design, (the bevel being too thin for the size and apparent intended use of the knife)?
Just a rhetorical question to stimulate thought.