Should I change steel

JTknives

JTknives

Joined
Jun 11, 2006
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Well im finley getting the huge amount of steel i need for my valor II knife orders. in the past i have been using O1 and heat treating it my self, but now i am thinking about moving to an air hardening steel and cant decide between A2 OR D2 it seames like A2 is around twice the tuffness but has less whear resistence. the valor knives arnt very long 4-5" and 2" wide and 3/16" thick and thay are a neck knife so no handle meteral. so i was thinking D2 because of its stainless propertys but A2 seames tuffer. also is this steel somthing i can heat treat my self i dont have a evenheat just a forge. im ordering my sheets in 36" x 8" and its going to flow jet soon so any help would be great. thanks
 
both A2 and D2 should have a soak at temp before quench
should have a kiln for ether i would think

me i would do D2 or 154cm sweat could maybe rust the others
 
Butch is, of course, dead on. But, if I were to decide between D2 and A2 for my "regular" steel I'd probably pick A2. The reason is because D2 is a b*tch to work and finish. It's a very slippery steel and requires very sharp belts to grind well. If I recall correctly, you're using a disc grinder, so this may not be an issue for you... or it may be a bigger issue, don't know as I've never tried D2 on a disc.

Once you're into air hardening steels, there are many that are perfectly fine for most knife applications and much nicer to work, like ATS-34 or 154CM. Both are less slippery than D2 and more "user friendly" than A2. If you go with A2, put a nice polish on it to keep it from rusting.
 
I really like D2. My RHC 62 D2 EDC has scraped a lot of dry wall and cut a fair amount of fiberglass tape today and is still sharp.

I'll point out again, they both (A2, D2) need a good long soak, at a specific temperature, you just can't do it well without an oven. I think most people like to freeze as part of the quench too...

If you have a bunch to do, I think Paul Bos has a pretty good deal for your heat treat.
 
Hey Nathan, not sure how I missed that you were in NC before. I know you're a ways out from Greenville, but we've got a guild meeting coming up there and would like to see you out there if you can make it.

Sorry for the derail, back to the topic.
 
yep when you step up to air quench steels there are many and i think most of them need cryo
not a little step but a good step over all

BTW never found much different in grinding annealed steels sept that i can grind high carbon faster then SS
 
Buy a heat treating furnace before you move to air hardening steels. Why not use both? A2 for blades requiring very thin edges, high toughness, or push cutting, and D2 for slicers. I think I'd rather use CPM-154 or S30V for my high wear resistance steel (instead of D2), and 13C26 as a replacement for A2, unless the blade is over 1/8", because 13C26 isn't available that thick.
 
Butch, I agree they grind the same with fresh belts, but you can tell real quick when your belt is dull on D2, at least I can :o The belts wear very quickly as well, so if you're used to grinding a lot of small knives with the same belt/disc I think you'll really start to see the difference.

I believe a disc grinder would really make the grinding differences stand out since discs and paper aren't as readily available in the specialty configurations we get our belts in. D2 grinds fine on a fresh ceramic belt, for example, but I don't know where you'd buy ceramic discs, or how much you'd pay for them.

We all say use belts like they're free, but there's some steels out there that make them seem a little more expensive :D
 
im building a 2x72 and im so excyted. I think if i decided to do a2 i would send it out for heat treat because i would have around 30 blades at once
 
30 blades at a time send them out till you can buy the kiln and LN container
then do them in house and use just about any steel you want and can test

so far as belts and discs supergrit is just up the road 12 mile maybe so im spoiled i can get norton cer. 20 inch disc if i want
the 3v and 10v +s30v can be hard on belts no joke but i started with grinding 440c on a 1x42 so i dont realy know how most of the 10xx steels are on a belt
 
AcridSaint said:
Hey Nathan, not sure how I missed that you were in NC before. I know you're a ways out from Greenville, but we've got a guild meeting coming up there and would like to see you out there if you can make it.

Sorry for the derail, back to the topic.
Click to expand...


You have your email blocked. Please send me a private message.

Thanks,
Nathan
 
Im thinking about using A2 because the valor knives have lots of cutouts and it needs the strength. here are some pictures of my valor knives. is A2 more rust resistint than O1. how hard will it be to grind A2 after it heat treated because i have so many styles of these knives i am just having the handle cutout and leave the blade square and shape it per request. but i will sent it to heat treat right after water jet cut out then shape the blade to the customers request. thanks for all the help, im thinking about doing 30 at a time. who do you think does the best heat treat for the money with the best quality. thanks

here is the link with the pictures of the valor knives

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=482268
 
JTknives said:
A2 more rust resistint than O1.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: Old Ford Trucks are more rust resistant than O1. :D

Disclaimer. I've never made - nor carried - a neck knife, but it seems to me they are going to be worn, often under a shirt, next to a sweaty chest. Corrosion resistance would seem one of the primary requirements. How about CPM154. It's highly stain resistant and twice as tough as even regular 154CM for the same hardness.

I agree that all the air hardening steels are best done in a computer controlled oven - preferably with cryo.

If you are doing 100 blades, the equipment will be largely paid for in what you would have paid an outside service. (Not quite, because you still have to allow for foil, electricity, your time and a few other things).


Sounds like a rewarding project. :thumbup:

Rob!
 
I wouldn't worry much about those cutouts, they shouldn't make a knife that size less sturdy in just about any steel. I'd also go with a straight stainless steel for neck knives, even 440C would work rather well and is affordable.
 
the only knife that I have had rust on me is A2

I'd go D2 or just 154 stainless or even 440c.
 
Ya, after thinking about it i have decided to go stainless because on the not handle meterial and being a necker. these are just general use knives designed for EDC. but i want them to be strong and durable so as to be used for say survivle and law inforcment. I was thinking about 440C but then was wondering if it worth jumping up to say cmp154 or cpm s30v. I have never used stainless befor because i alwase prefered carbon steel. thanks, where is a good place to get large quanitys of cpm154,cpm s30v, 440C. thanks all
 
crucible sells cpm154 adn cpms30v in sheet form for you not sure about 440c

last order of cpm154 i got i think i paied liek 15$ a lb or something
 
I think im going to eather use 440c or cpm154. im just woried about the stregth issues because of the cut outs and thin sections and want it to beable to stand up to hevy use. out of the 2 listed which one do you prefer. the knifes i have seen you make have used cpm154 but its farley new compared to say 440C so i dont know that much about it. thanks butcher block
 
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