Should i stabilize?

L

libladeguy

Joined
Jul 6, 2016
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Hi all, Have a question in regards to stabilizing. I working on a project for a distillery. going to take the oak barrel staves that they age the whiskey in and use them for my handle material. aside from properly drying the staves out would you suggest stabilizing? or is the oak strong enough
 
Keep in mind there's a shoptalk forum where knife makers would be more likely to respond to your inquiry.
Personally, as a hobbyist knifemaker I don't like stabilizing. I understand why knifemakers do it. It takes out the risk of the wood shrinking or cracking. You don't want to disappoint a customer and you don't want to have the knife returned to you for a new handle.
Also if you want to use figured wood, beautiful burls and such, it's more likely to crack so stabilizing will prevent that.
After wood is stabilized it's not really wood anymore. It's a synthetic derived from wood.
I would make sure that the wood you use is dry. It can take awhile for wood to fully dry out. It also must be dry before stabilizing.
 
i think oak is useable without stabilizing. for me, any wood i cannot dent with my fingernail is suitable for handles. oak is a bit less hard than maple, but seems to be heavier and more dense. make sure it is at 5-8% moisture with a moisture meter before using it, or it will shrink, expand or curl.
 
john april said:
i think oak is useable without stabilizing. for me, any wood i cannot dent with my fingernail is suitable for handles. oak is a bit less hard than maple, but seems to be heavier and more dense. make sure it is at 5-8% moisture with a moisture meter before using it, or it will shrink, expand or curl.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing... these oak barrels staves are super dense. finish off with some Danish oil should be good.
 
AF said:
Keep in mind there's a shoptalk forum where knife makers would be more likely to respond to your inquiry.
Personally, as a hobbyist knifemaker I don't like stabilizing. I understand why knifemakers do it. It takes out the risk of the wood shrinking or cracking. You don't want to disappoint a customer and you don't want to have the knife returned to you for a new handle.
Also if you want to use figured wood, beautiful burls and such, it's more likely to crack so stabilizing will prevent that.
After wood is stabilized it's not really wood anymore. It's a synthetic derived from wood.
I would make sure that the wood you use is dry. It can take awhile for wood to fully dry out. It also must be dry before stabilizing.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with the above post. Stablized wood is still wood. It's not like we are converting the wood to plastic. It's about the same as doing a hand rubbed oil finish on wood. Your hoping the oil soaks in and waterproofs the surface for the most part. Stablizing just takes that further by sucking the "oil" all the way through the wood. Now granted it's not oil that is used as that would be messy and not finish good when grinding. A resin is used that cures so it's hard and will finish nice with sanding. But it's still wood, you would not soak a spunge in water and say it's not a sponge now. The resin merely fills the voids and microscopic pores so moisture can't. There are onley a handful of woods that are used without stablizing becaus thy are fully impregnated with there own oil so thy don't absorbs moisture. I would not use oak unless it was stablized. but we are all entitled to our own opinion so I wish you good luck in your project.
 
Am I the only one wondering what some sponge scales might look like now?

I'd say test a small piece. Do they have any unique interesting coloring from the whiskey? My only concern would be if they did would the stabilizing impact that?
 
AF said:
No but if you soaked a sponge in epoxy resin I'd say it's not a sponge anymore.
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Yes but a sponge is not wood. Stabilized wood still has a grain and directional properties. It is stabilized. It's not called plastisization. It's stabziling. The wood is harder and resistant to change
 
White oak is a closed grain hardwood, water can only enter or exit very slowly by soaking into the cellulose fibers on the surface. That's why it is used for liquid tight barrels. I think it would be at least as resistant to resin. I would contact the stabilizing service you plan to use and see what they say about treating white oak.
 
I have a stack of Jack Daniels whisky barrel staves sitting in the wood shop. I make pens ands such from them. When I use some for kmnife handles, I stabilize it.
Stabilized wood is still wood. It merely has the tubes and spaces in the grain filled with an acrylic resin.
 
john april said:
i think oak is useable without stabilizing. for me, any wood i cannot dent with my fingernail is suitable for handles. oak is a bit less hard than maple, but seems to be heavier and more dense. make sure it is at 5-8% moisture with a moisture meter before using it, or it will shrink, expand or curl.
Click to expand...
do you keep the char on the staves?
 
Not really. I sand down to clean wood. There is some darkening, but any char is gone.
 
Another benefit of stabilizing is ease of finishing. That's the main reason I like using it. It's not perfect, but most of the grain and pores come pre filled. It cuts down substantially on the time and number of coats required to fill the grain and finish the handle.

Even if it didn't have any other benefits, I'd still use it for certain woods just due to time saved finishing
 
Stabilized wood is still wood. There is the same amount of wood as there was prior to stabilizing, except where there was air, and a minimal amount of H2O, there is now resin. I use stabilized and unstabilized woods. They both have there place.
 
lanternnate said:
Am I the only one wondering what some sponge scales might look like now?

I'd say test a small piece. Do they have any unique interesting coloring from the whiskey? My only concern would be if they did would the stabilizing impact that?
Click to expand...

As soon as I posted that I knew someone would bring that up and it wonder how sponge scales would look
 
Probably like a hard sponge. It would not be filled in all the voids.

Many folks do not realize that the resin used in stabilizing wood does not fill voids and cracks to any real amount. If a wood is stabilized with lots of voids, ike buckeye burl, it will still have mostly of those when done. The voids can be filled with resins when finishing, or if they are large, with a casting type resin. Alumalite is a popular resin for this task.

Cholla cactus is often filled with a casting resin to enhance the look. That is what a sponge would look like if resin filled. Same for pine cones, etc.
 
I hate to hijack this thread, but would pulling a vacuum on the wood help. I know it draws a lot of trapped air out of thin epoxy that has been mixed by hand. I may try this on some wood I have.
 
Stabilization is done under strong vacuum, then pressure.

One of the big reasons the wood needs to be at 7% moisture content or less is that the water in the wood boils off under vacuum. If there is too much moisture, the wood can warp and even crack. The air trapped in the fibers and xylem tubes of the wood is also drawn out. When the vacuum is released,and pressure applied, the resin fills these areas. After draining off the excess resin, the resin in the wood is catalyzed by heat to convert it to a poly-acrylic resin.
 
Late to the party but there is another knife maker in my area that uses Bourbon staves(KY) and aluminum pins. Not stabilized but wax dipped and torched. It works really well. I wont link because I dont think he supports BF and I believe its a no-no/

Kinda square/blocky for me but works and looks the part.
 
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