Should I use water with my DMT stones?

A

Aelius

Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
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The instructions tell me to use water when sharpening with my DMT stones. I thought this was just a myth, and that sharpening with water isn't necessary at all?
 
It's not necessary, but it helps prevent steel dust from building up in any one place and eventually packing into the stone and reducing its cutting ability.
 
Do the instructions really say use water? I think they say you may use water, but don't need to use anything.
 
I use water only to wash DMT stones. When it became dirty I just wash it - once every 100-200 swipes.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
I use water only to wash DMT stones. When it became dirty I just wash it - once every 100-200 swipes.
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I do the same. When I see or feel buildup I walk over to the sink and rinse the hone with water and toothbrush and then go back to sharpening.
 
I always use water with my 8" duosharps, but often use the DMT handheld sharpeners without. It helps keep the particles contained and does provide some lubrication.
 
Stones cut smoother with a thin cutting fluid applied, and they don't load-AND the stones will last longer. The diamonds are embedded in a plated nickel matrix that is very thin. Lubrication lessens the amount of stress pulling at the diamond particles.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Stones cut smoother with a thin cutting fluid applied, and they don't load-AND the stones will last longer. The diamonds are embedded in a plated nickel matrix that is very thin. Lubrication lessens the amount of stress pulling at the diamond particles.
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I doubt it. Just can not understand physics of this. I can understand that water wash out particles of metal so they will not affect sharpening process and will not clog stone as it is in case of waterstones. Or cool of drill to prevent it from loosing temper. But in case of this - just really hard to understand - I can only imagine that it lover friction but to sharpen you actually scratching off metal and need friction.

DMT last forewer - I do not see any signs of wear out after heavy sharpening on D8XX (like removing serrations and S-curve):

CRTK Apache I - ATS34
CRTK Apache III - ATS34
Spyderco Endura ZDP 189
Spyderco Delica ZDP 189
Zero Tolerance - CPM S30V
4 x Busse Game wardens - INFI
2 x Busse Active Duty - INFI
2 x Busse Badger Attack - INFI
2 x Busse Meaner Street - INFI
Swamp Rat HRLM - SR101
Swamp Rat Ratmandu - SR101
2 x Laury PT (63HRC) - UHB17va
Laury Leuku - UHB17va
2 x M.Calldwell - 154CM
Spyderco Military - CPM 440V
Spyderco Military - CPM S30V
Spyderco Military - BG-42
Cold Steel ODA - 420HC
Buck Strider Solution 888 - ATS34
Marychev Chirok - 95x18
4 x Yuna Hard - ZDP189
Kershaw ZT302 - CPM S30V
SwampRat Rat Trap - CPM S30V
Microtech Socom Elite - CPM S90V
Busse Active Duty - INFI
Kershaw Tyrade - CPM D2
Benchmade Ares - D2
Kiku Matsuda Tanto II - OU31
Benchmade William&Henry 710 - M2
CRKT M1 AUS8
G-Sakai Bosen Enkuto SRS15
Fehrman PieceMaker F3V (CPM 3V)
РосОружие Утес 110х18
Dozier KS2 D2

Most of what bother me - is sniffing WD40, because when you sharopen you observes it closely and breeze with all this chemestry. This may cause hallucinations! I rather recomment to use it as manufacturer suggested - no oil, no water, nothing!

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I have worn out several diamond sharpeners refinishing blades.
A cutting lubricant makes abrasives cut smoother. I use WD 40 on my buffs to make them cut smoother, but more aggressively.
Bill
 
Bill DeShivs said:
I have worn out several diamond sharpeners refinishing blades.
A cutting lubricant makes abrasives cut smoother. I use WD 40 on my buffs to make them cut smoother, but more aggressively.
Bill
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Please, specify those diamond sharpener brands.

I am talking about monocrystallite DMT. And as you see I resharpen 45 knives - removed serration on Apachies etc, and remove S-curve on many - so it was a lot of really heavy use and it continue to do job done even without me using it dry.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I believe they are Dia Sharp. They are the colored plastic paddles with a 3/4" X 2" diamond surface. I'll check when I go to the shop later.
 
those are DMT brand. I can see the life being much shorter with such a comparatively small surface area in relation to the eight inch plates
 
Most all forms of physical metal removal are the act of the tool ripping a piece or "chip" of the metal off. A diamond on a diamond plate is doing the same thing. Failure in that case would be the diamond breaking or coming off. There is always some benefit to adding a metal removal fluid to this equation. The real argument here is how much benefit is gained, which would greatly depend on how fast and how hard you sharpen, and which fluid is best for you (my ROI analysis determined the benefit was worth the cost using water! ;)). As they say much more eloquently than I could on pg 335 of the book linked below, when it comes to metal removal, "what goes on at the tip of these tools is essentially the same regardless of geometry or kinematics". Look further and they show a pic of a chip being removed and some work towards understanding the forces at work. I'll bet the temperature of the surfaces and tip of the diamond right at the area where the "chip" is being removed when sharpening might surprise some.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Hb...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result
 
This is mini hones not really stones. I use 11.5"x2.5" - this may be key difference.

But they are positioned this way:

"Dia-Sharp® Mini-Hone™ — 2.5" diamond surface with Easy Access Tip which measures .033" thick. Color-coded ergonomic handle eases sharpening, deburring and honing in tight spaces."

So not really for removing serration or changing angle or re-profiling S-curved edges.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Fluids help lift the abraded metal off the surface so they don't clog up and allows you to keep sharpening

Oil stones - use honing oil
Water stones - use water
Ceramics - dry - but with lots of cleaning with 'cream cleanser' and green scourer
Diamond - with water but you can use dry if you damp wipe often - and the diamond will wear out. I don't like diamond because I find it leaves scratches

I've also seen recommendations for fine (2000) W&D to be loaded with graphite and jewellers rouge for initial step of re-honing cut-throat razors prior to stropping
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Correction-they are EZ Laps.
Bill
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Aha! This is what I suspect - this is Diamond products, not DMT and this is not monocrystallite but polycristallite which mean that diamond abrasive particles are not solid crystal but burned together smaller crystals. I think this is the reason that it wear out - I have those stones also same 11.5"x2.5" from WoodCraft, but Woodcraft about year ago switch them to DMT and I switch as well - had to because they wear out. But have not problem after that

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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