Should Jerry make the Basic 11 a Standard Release?

[Will York]

:thumbup: all the way!

 

[philwar]

Yes, but only if it was full tang.

 

[Ankerson]

Yes, but only if it was full tang.

They are full tang, just not exposed tang.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Stop makin em - it'll make mine more valuable later on.

 

[GenericJohn]

Busse NEEDS TO OFFER SEVERAL STANDARD RELEASES AT ALL TIMES, AND SELL TWO SIMPLE LINES (e.g., functional/basic vs. high-end/artistic)!

The one-at-a-time model may work for business, but it kind of makes me want to buy from someone like Fehrman instead. The problem is that by the time I figure out which Busse I want for a specific purpose it has long disappeared and one must deal with the hit-or-miss aftermarket or a near-clone that isn't quite what I wanted. If a product is worth its cost and is in regular production, it will be widely used and develop a reputation. Other people will get familiar with the product, and then a friend wants one and a friend of a friend wants one. Busse makes nothing that sticks around long enough to become truly iconic, such as the Buck 110, Delica/Endura, Ka-Bar, Sebenza, etc. Busse should...

 

[Revolverrodger]

If I could buy the B11 I would do something I never do: buy two instead of one !

 

[Jaxx]

Busse NEEDS TO OFFER SEVERAL STANDARD RELEASES AT ALL TIMES, AND SELL TWO SIMPLE LINES (e.g., functional/basic vs. high-end/artistic)!

The one-at-a-time model may work for business, but it kind of makes me want to buy from someone like Fehrman instead. The problem is that by the time I figure out which Busse I want for a specific purpose it has long disappeared and one must deal with the hit-or-miss aftermarket or a near-clone that isn't quite what I wanted. If a product is worth its cost and is in regular production, it will be widely used and develop a reputation. Other people will get familiar with the product, and then a friend wants one and a friend of a friend wants one. Busse makes nothing that sticks around long enough to become truly iconic, such as the Buck 110, Delica/Endura, Ka-Bar, Sebenza, etc. Busse should...

That's one opinion. Here's another. While you might think that no specific model is as widely known as the Buck 110, Delica/Endura, Ka-bar, Sebenza, etc., the name "BUSSE" is becoming iconic in itself. The reputation is that ANY knife with BUSSE, or Busse Combat, or Busse Custom Shop on it will be tough, proven, made of INFI, and backed by Jerry through one of the best no BS warranties in the knife community.

Every successful company has a proven business model. Jerry's is no different as it has a track record of proven success.

...And as proof, here you are...while stating that the way Busse offers knives makes you want to buy from someone like Mark Fehrman, you are in the Busse forum because you are interested in Busse knives.

 

[kdstrick]

Busse NEEDS TO OFFER SEVERAL STANDARD RELEASES AT ALL TIMES, AND SELL TWO SIMPLE LINES (e.g., functional/basic vs. high-end/artistic)!

The one-at-a-time model may work for business, but it kind of makes me want to buy from someone like Fehrman instead. The problem is that by the time I figure out which Busse I want for a specific purpose it has long disappeared and one must deal with the hit-or-miss aftermarket or a near-clone that isn't quite what I wanted. If a product is worth its cost and is in regular production, it will be widely used and develop a reputation. Other people will get familiar with the product, and then a friend wants one and a friend of a friend wants one. Busse makes nothing that sticks around long enough to become truly iconic, such as the Buck 110, Delica/Endura, Ka-Bar, Sebenza, etc. Busse should...

Jerry is going to begin offering multiple models at the same time on the website in the future.

I can see your point about producing a single or multiple popular models for a long time, and you may be right about that. It can be a bit frustrating for those that aren't familiar with Busse's way of doing business. It is very different than the way the rest of the knife market operates.

Hang around a while and you will understand it all... just trust me on that.

With regard to reputation, I would argue that Busse knives are the go-to company for hard use knives and are very well known as such.

As for my personal opinion, I'd much rather have a knifemaker that is continually inventing and refining designs, like Busse, than a company that constantly produces the same ol' designs. That's boring. If Jerry did everything like every other maker he would have been satisfied with standard steels and heat treatments. As it is, he has developed a proprietary steel and heat treatment which produces a superior product than the competition, and the consumer benefits.

Like I said, hang around a while and you will get used to the way it works.... and may change your opinion.

 

[bcornelis]

Yes, I would buy one or two.

 

[GenericJohn]

That's one opinion. Here's another. While you might think that no specific model is as widely known as the Buck 110, Delica/Endura, Ka-bar, Sebenza, etc., the name "BUSSE" is becoming iconic in itself. The reputation is that ANY knife with BUSSE, or Busse Combat, or Busse Custom Shop on it will be tough, proven, made of INFI, and backed by Jerry through one of the best no BS warranties in the knife community.

Every successful company has a proven business model. Jerry's is no different as it has a track record of proven success.

...And as proof, here you are...while stating that the way Busse offers knives makes you want to buy from someone like Mark Fehrman, you are in the Busse forum because you are interested in Busse knives.

I have owned an NMSFNO for over a year...but I wanted an ASH-1 type knife and it was long unavailable when I was in the market. Frankly, I almost didn't get the NMSFNO, as Fehrman sells almost exactly what I wanted with the Last Chance. The next time that I can't get what I want from Busse I am VERY likely to try another brand... I would hope that Busse can find a way to become a household name rather than a cult brand. I buy useful products, I don't sit on waiting lists, and I don't buy limited production items as collectibles, investments, or status symbols. If that is not the Busse business model then so be it.

 

[Jaxx]

I have owned an NMSFNO for over a year...but I wanted an ASH-1 type knife and it was long unavailable when I was in the market. Frankly, I almost didn't get the NMSFNO, as Fehrman sells almost exactly what I wanted with the Last Chance. The next time that I can't get what I want from Busse I am VERY likely to try another brand... I would hope that Busse can find a way to become a household name rather than a cult brand. I buy useful products, I don't sit on waiting lists, and I don't buy limited production items as collectibles, investments, or status symbols. If that is not the Busse business model then so be it.

Sorry that you missed on the ASH-1. It is a fantastic knife. Funny thing about that model is how long it was available...It was offered on the site for over 8 months, which is probably the longest that any single knife model in recent history has been available through Busse.

It is what it is... This is how Jerry does things. If he feels the need to change things, then I'm sure that he will. So far, he is having no problems selling his knives.

 

[GenericJohn]

Jerry is going to begin offering multiple models at the same time on the website in the future.

I can see your point about producing a single or multiple popular models for a long time, and you may be right about that. It can be a bit frustrating for those that aren't familiar with Busse's way of doing business. It is very different than the way the rest of the knife market operates.

Hang around a while and you will understand it all... just trust me on that.

With regard to reputation, I would argue that Busse knives are the go-to company for hard use knives and are very well known as such.

As for my personal opinion, I'd much rather have a knifemaker that is continually inventing and refining designs, like Busse, than a company that constantly produces the same ol' designs. That's boring. If Jerry did everything like every other maker he would have been satisfied with standard steels and heat treatments. As it is, he has developed a proprietary steel and heat treatment which produces a superior product than the competition, and the consumer benefits.

Like I said, hang around a while and you will get used to the way it works.... and may change your opinion.

See my other reply. I have owned an NMSFNO for more than 1 year and am fully aware of the Busse business model. It is just not a business model that works for my needs or how I like to buy things. If I have money to spend and want to buy a knife with size X and weight Y I cannot do so from Busse, but must deal with the collector market and absurd availability problems. I choose to avoid collector markets because they are stacked against me. Mainstream companies like Spyderco and Benchmade do in fact divide their product lines between bread-and-butter models (e.g., Endura, Griptilian) and collector models. Busse could be much bigger and more influential if it did the same.

At the end of the day a plain axe does a pretty good job at chopping and a chainsaw is a wonderful tool for cutting down trees. If I can't get the exact Busse I want I'll get one of those instead.

 

[d.weglarz13]

I will take a 5,7,9, AND 11!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kdstrick]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ We will just agree to disagree, then.

Secondary market prices are often not much more than the original price if you consider shipping costs, etc...

I'm not a patient guy, so I do understand... but like I said earlier, hang around a bit and you'll get used to Busse's business model and even (maybe) learn to like it.

 

[philwar]

They are full tang, just not exposed tang.

Well' we've been there. To me, an FBM is full tang, this one is not.

 

[Last Visible Canary]

Well' we've been there. To me, an FBM is full tang, this one is not.

1/2-3/4 enclosed

1/2, 3/4 enclosed, and then exposed peened stick tang

full enclosed with exposed pommel

full enclosed

full exposed

I beleive the term "full" referring to tang simply means it goes all the way to the end.

I really doubt that the basic 11 will ever be made with an exposed pommel or exposed tang of any sort with reciprene c. If I recall correctly someone in one of the busse kin companies said that the dirt getting shoved into the handle space wasn't worth the benefit of an exposed pommel (as far as them making it that way). It's possible that they would make a full exposed tang version of the basic handle but... i don't know how well the basic 9 handle would do in micarta, I have a feeling it would lose a lot of it's refined feeling moving to a hard scale.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Busse NEEDS TO OFFER SEVERAL STANDARD RELEASES AT ALL TIMES, AND SELL TWO SIMPLE LINES (e.g., functional/basic vs. high-end/artistic)!

The one-at-a-time model may work for business, but it kind of makes me want to buy from someone like Fehrman instead. The problem is that by the time I figure out which Busse I want for a specific purpose it has long disappeared and one must deal with the hit-or-miss aftermarket or a near-clone that isn't quite what I wanted. If a product is worth its cost and is in regular production, it will be widely used and develop a reputation. Other people will get familiar with the product, and then a friend wants one and a friend of a friend wants one. Busse makes nothing that sticks around long enough to become truly iconic, such as the Buck 110, Delica/Endura, Ka-Bar, Sebenza, etc. Busse should...

We ain't one-at-a-timin here! We're mass-communicatin!

 

[philwar]

I beleive the term "full" referring to tang simply means it goes all the way to the end.

Well said. I believe something different.
There are different definitions. One of them is what you call exposed full tang. That's what I regard as full tang.
And I think it's important because it is the strongest possible construction. Thin the handle out, and it becomes less strong, even if it's still strong enough for any task.

 

[iamtoast]

In general I would agree with prefering the full (exposed) tang on a knife. My only exception so far is Busse and Busse-kin. From what I have read the Res-C handles are pretty hardy, resisting just about all damage shy of burning them. Conceptually though, the thinning of the tang and having that last section non-exposed creates points of potential weakness. Sort of how a 'hard use' folder still is basically, as designed, already pre-broken.

There has been discussion of some using the handle as a hammer and getting some damage and this certainly could be a negative point about the design. I have been amazed at the X-Ray images of the Res-C knife tangs and just how thin they actually are (in relation to their respective blades). In practicality, I have not read much of anyone damaging their Res-C Busse-kin knives and I am guessing that this forum has some of the most extreme knife 'users' (read abusers) in the community. The Res-C I have owned/used is so comfortable and wonderfully shock absorbent I will gladly take the little bit of reduced resilience of the B11 over a BWM or FBM.

I would love to see the B11 become a standard release.

 

[Ankerson]

In general I would agree with prefering the full (exposed) tang on a knife. My only exception so far is Busse and Busse-kin. From what I have read the Res-C handles are pretty hardy, resisting just about all damage shy of burning them. Conceptually though, the thinning of the tang and having that last section non-exposed creates points of potential weakness. Sort of how a 'hard use' folder still is basically, as designed, already pre-broken.

There has been discussion of some using the handle as a hammer and getting some damage and this certainly could be a negative point about the design. I have been amazed at the X-Ray images of the Res-C knife tangs and just how thin they actually are (in relation to their respective blades). In practicality, I have not read much of anyone damaging their Res-C Busse-kin knives and I am guessing that this forum has some of the most extreme knife 'users' (read abusers) in the community. The Res-C I have owned/used is so comfortable and wonderfully shock absorbent I will gladly take the little bit of reduced resilience of the B11 over a BWM or FBM.

I would love to see the B11 become a standard release.

Noss Pounded on a Basic 9's handle with a 3 LB mallet driving it though concrete and it held up great. :thumbup:

Just watch his videos on the Basic 9 and it will put every doubt to rest on how they hold up to abuse. :thumbup: