Should the COA for the Buck Of the Month say "750 made, plus Overruns and Factory Blemished" ?

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Your Name Goes Here

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Should the COA for the Buck Of the Month say, for example, "750 made, plus Overruns and Factory Blemished". I ask this because in the last year (or two) I have seen 8 different BOTM models for sale on the bay as "Overruns" or "Factory Blemished". That is without even trying to look for such knives. So I am sure there are a few more models I have missed.

And yes, the July BOTM is currently listed as a Factory Blemish. Usually these knives come in a yellow box instead of the black box, and do not have a COA.

Just feels like it cheapens the whole exclusivity of the BOTM if these Overruns and Factory Blemished knives are available on a consistent basis from Buck. And yes, most (all ?) of the knives I have seen are from one seller. I believe this person is a forum member. I am not calling that person out. Their business is their business. More power to them. And from what I have read, they are an excellent seller and person.

It is Buck that I feel is cheating their customers by consistently offering Overruns and Factory Blemished knives of the BOTM. The COA says "750" but really it is "750" plus the unknown (to the public) and not stated number of Overruns and Factory Blemished knives.

Rant finished.

Follow me to the factory if you agree ! Pitchforks and torches will be provided on a first come first served basis : )
 
Buck is a frugal company.
If a knife is made that doesn't meet spec, it becomes a Blem.
And they sell it as such.
And they only sell it at the factory store.

If after making a run of knives, they may have some parts left over.
Buck often uses those parts to make Build Outs.
Once again they only sell those at the factory store.

Put your pitchfork away.
Maybe you could go to the store and buy one for yourself.
Myself, I simply use this Person in question as a resource, and buy from them.
Everything is always as advertised, and I have many of the Build out knives.
I like them.

Oh, and I'm not interested in this club, it's tone or reference.

Thanks.
 
GPyro said:
Buck is a frugal company.
If a knife is made that doesn't meet spec, it becomes a Blem.
And they sell it as such.
And they only sell it at the factory store.

If after making a run of knives, they may have some parts left over.
Buck often uses those parts to make Build Outs.
Once again they only sell those at the factory store.

Put your pitchfork away.
Maybe you could go to the store and buy one for yourself.
Myself, I simply use this Person in question as a resource, and buy from them.
Everything is always as advertised, and I have many of the Build out knives.
I like them.

Oh, and I'm not interested in this club, it's tone or reference.

Thanks.
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All opinions are welcome. Hence the "Should".

Let me first say, "Buildouts" are not what I am discussing. The "Overruns" or "Factory Blemished" knives are the EXACT same knife as the BOTM. The only difference is there is no COA and the retail box is different (yellow style instead of the black style). Of course, the "Factory Blemished" has a small blemish and an "FB" on the knife; importantly, some of the times, but not always.

Buildouts, again not discussing Buildouts, by contrast are a mixture of different knives. And I believe, the Buildouts don't come with a COA ?

Second, this discussion is in no way, shape or form about the seller or sellers, or resellers of these knives (BOTM Overruns or Factory Blemished).

This discussion is about the actual number produced, and for sale to the public, of a stated exclusive knife which is not correct. In later years, when someone sells a BOTM without the box or the COA, is that knife 1 of 750 made, as stated on the COA, or 1 of 1000 made. No one will know. The "Overruns" and / or "Factory Blemished" knives add to the total made. And there is no way to tell the actual knives apart: unless there is an "FB" on the blade, which all of the "Factory Blemished" knives don't have and the "Overruns" never have any such marking.

It is my opinion, that Buck should put on their COA the number produce and also state that there are "Overruns" or "Factory Blemished" knives also available for sale to the public.

"750 made, plus Overruns and Factory Blemished".

A COA that says "750 Made" should only have 750 knives sold.

A regular production knife that becomes a FB knife. Great. I think everyone accepts the regular production knives are massed produced (10s of thousands, millions, etc).

The COA exclusive BOTM knife, usually cost a premium over the regular production version, and at times the materials used for the BOTM are no better and sometimes worse than that of the regular production knife. So, a very important part customers are paying a premium for is that number on the COA.

If you reconsider, the doors to the DMMT300OTBOTM Club are always open to you.
 
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Your Name Goes Here said:
Should the COA for the Buck Of the Month say, for example, "750 made, plus Overruns and Factory Blemished". I ask this because in the last year (or two) I have seen 8 different BOTM models for sale on the bay as "Overruns" or "Factory Blemished". That is without even trying to look for such knives. So I am sure there are a few more models I have missed.

And yes, the July BOTM is currently listed as a Factory Blemish. Usually these knives come in a yellow box instead of the black box, and do not have a COA.

Just feels like it cheapens the whole exclusivity of the BOTM if these Overruns and Factory Blemished knives are available on a consistent basis from Buck. And yes, most (all ?) of the knives I have seen are from one seller. I believe this person is a forum member. I am not calling that person out. Their business is their business. More power to them. And from what I have read, they are an excellent seller and person.

It is Buck that I feel is cheating their customers by consistently offering Overruns and Factory Blemished knives of the BOTM. The COA says "750" but really it is "750" plus the unknown (to the public) and not stated number of Overruns and Factory Blemished knives.

Rant finished.

Follow me to the factory if you agree ! Pitchforks and torches will be provided on a first come first served basis : )
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Quoted before edit possible.
 
I happen to collect another genre of product. One manufacturer has three levels of product. The regular level runs anywhere from 12 to 19 thousand. The medium level runs anywhere from 52 to 750 depending on the size of the regular run. The rare level runs 10 only and always 10. One of my friends collects all three levels. He has one of the rare for 12 or 13 different items yet has never seen them in a store. Friends have sent them to him or know that he collects them and the work out a trade. I have one of the medium level items. It is the only one I've ever seen in person. It is one of roughly 750 in the entire world.

If 750 isn't limited enough for you even though Buck's products are distributed widely you might want to switch to something that is more rare. Like pre-1965 Buck Knives. With the number of Buck knives produced annually no matter how one counts 750 IS limited. Either be happy with that number of find something that is more rare. You live in a small community of collectors so of course you're going to run into people that have the same knife as you.
 
I dont care about the higher quantities myself. I kinda like the odds go up that i might get one....

I also don't care about overruns and blems or seconds making the count higher than 750.
in general i dont care about blems or seconds, etc........ other than someone trying to sell it as a perfect knife and trying to rip someone off.

in fairness, I dont go out of my way to collect the rare ones on purpose. I get others do and it matters to them. I can respect that and understand how they see it.
 
I understand that any commercial enterprise has to do what the management feels is best for the bottom line and make them prosperous.

Also, see the OP's point that it is a deceptive means of doing that, depending on the numbers of 'blems' and over-runs and how it is presented.

I have no idea what the actual numbers are, probably few do and it most likely varies.

Could it be that the 'blems' and over-runs could end up being more collectible and exclusive than the original run...
 
pjsjr said:
I understand that any commercial enterprise has to do what the management feels is best for the bottom line and make them prosperous.

Also, see the OP's point that it is a deceptive means of doing that, depending on the numbers of 'blems' and over-runs and how it is presented.

I have no idea what the actual numbers are, probably few do and it most likely varies.

Could it be that the 'blems' and over-runs could end up being more collectible and exclusive than the original run...
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thats a good point there at the bottom, ya made....
 
Maybe it's because I'm not an Early Bird, but I appreciate the fact that Buck offers a decently sizeable quantity of otherwise "Limited Run" knives.

In addition, I'm in favor of anything that prevents low-life scalpers from taking advantage of limited runs by buying up the extremely low production numbers then flipping them online for a profit.

Besides, a Limited Run of any quantity is still a Limited Run by definition, so what difference does it make if it's 250 or 750?
I cannot help but question the motives of those who complain that 750 plus factory overruns and especially blemished knives is too great a quantity of knives.
 
While selling knives is certainly part of our hobby. The low life scalpers are a bain to every hobby right now.

My kids cannot even buy sports cards at walmart. Adults buy them all as soon as ttey hit the rack.

If higher numbers thwarts them, then I am all for higher numbers.

U Uncle Buckmaster makes a good point about those who desire the smaller number runs, and their motivation.

It should be about buying knives you enjoy, not about making a profit. If more people get to buy knives they like that is better for our hobby.

Like I said in my previous post. Blems wont come with the fancy box and COA. So they dont have the provenance to appreciate the way the real ones do.

This is a reason Buck should not re issue “lost” COAs.
 
Uncle Buckmaster said:
I cannot help but question the motives of those who complain that 750 plus factory overruns and especially blemished knives is too great a quantity of knives.
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eveled said:
U Uncle Buckmaster makes a good point about those who desire the smaller number runs, and their motivation.
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I like owning and having nice, unique things. I don't believe it's a character flaw, I have no ulterior motive, just self-satisfaction.
 
If you want to own a really nice, unique Buck knife then you can literally order a one-of-a-kind knife via their Custom Shop.

Craft your own unique variation of classics like the Buck 110, 112, and 119 from a selection of different steels, woods, sheaths, finishes, engraving, and even luxurious presentation boxes.

The only downside is that not all knives are available for customization and you cannot special order anything that isn't included on their list of options.
If only that were an option, then I would happily throw however much money was necessary to craft my dream knife... A Buck 124 Frontiersman with a 7-½" Blade miller to the exact specifications of the old Buckmaster 184, custom engraved with; "FRONTIERMASTER" complete with O.D. Green Linen Micarta handle scales and brass guard/pommel.
 
I don’t care how many they make, I just want a good knife at a reasonable price. The last botm 117 was exactly what I wanted but the extraordinary high price kept me from getting one. It was made with the same blade steel and materials as the production run of pro models that can be had for half the price the botm 117 went for. Sorry, I’m not into the I have one and you don’t bunch.
 
Lesknife said:
The last botm 117 was exactly what I wanted but the extraordinary high price kept me from getting one
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Part of the high cost might have been the huge box they used. Maybe BUCK thought they had three 117s in each box. I think that 117 was one of the better BOTM knives.

Bert
 
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eveled said:
Without the box and coa it doesn’t have the provenance the actual BOM has.
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This is partially true. A "Overrun" or "Factory Blemished" knife, sold years later (increase in price / desirability), which does not have any markings showing it is an "Overrun" or "Factory Blemished" knife, will by association with the BOTM future sells price, garner a large portion of that worth. Being sold as a BOTM on purpose or unintentionally.

It will be easy enough to sell the knife as a BOTM, with a lost COA / box once the knife is resold from Buck or the main supplier. For this reason, Buck should, at the very least, actually mark all of their "Overruns" or "Factory Blemished" knives as such. And I agree, do not issue replacement COA's (or maybe only on a strict case by case basis - to the original owner only ? ? ? ).



Uncle Buckmaster said:
I cannot help but question the motives of those who complain that 750 plus factory overruns and especially blemished knives is too great a quantity of knives.
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I think everyone has their own definition of what is rare.

I have seen "Limited Edition" runs in the 10,000 range, or more (I just laugh at this). For me, knives made in the 100 or fewer range are Rare. Up to 250, Limited. 250 to 500, Numbered (but not necessarily Limited). Any more than that - Anyone can get one (now or later at not too much of an effort).

Plus, I really like the feeling that only a few of these items were ever made. I'm not just talking about knives. Less than 50 made, gets my motor running. Less than 25, now I am interested. Less than 10, I'm never selling (but of course, I do, after owning the item for a few decades or more. I feel more like a curator, than that I actually own the item. Especially if it is 1 of a kind).



eveled said:
It should be about buying knives you enjoy, not about making a profit.
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Why does this always seem to be the go to suggestion on these forums. Why can't it be both. Every collectible I have ever bought in the last 43 years has been because I like it, enjoy having it and also, as important to the joy the collectible brings to me, I will one day resale the item at a profit (hopefully a huge profit). As I have done for 43 plus years of buying-selling-trading a diverse collection. It is the way in my family; make a profit at what you love doing, in business or a hobby.

That, is my motivation.

(It all started when my grandfathers great grandfathers father that was greater sold an ordinary rock to a guy for a profit).




pjsjr said:
I like owning and having nice, unique things. I don't believe it's a character flaw, I have no ulterior motive, just self-satisfaction.
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Well said.



Makael said:

Should the COA for the Buck Of the Month say "750 made, plus Overruns and Factory Blemished"​


No, only state the max qty that are 100% complete. The blems etc. Are just blems etc
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I have an issue with Buck selling "Overruns" or "Factory Blemished" knives that are the EXACT same knife as the BOTM.

Buck should not sell any "Overruns" or "Factory Blemished" knives that are the same exact knife as a BOTM. In pictures, I have seen "Factory Blemished" BOTM knives that do not have an "FB" on the blade/knife. There is only a sticker with "Factory Blem" on the yellow box.

I would go so far as to say, some of the BOTM that have been sold by Buck in the past should be Factory Blem based on the condition received from the factory (as seen in pictures on this forum).

So there is no way to tell the actual knives apart; the BOTM knives from the Factory Blem knives without "FB" on them. And, I believe, "Overruns" never have any such marking.

A COA that says "750 Made" should only have 750 knives made and sold. Some COA, not Buck, actually say this. 750 made worldwide, no other Proofs, Artist Proof, molds broken afterward etc, etc.

As for Buck being like any other company, existing to make a profit (except, Non Profits ? ) - sale the "Overruns" or "Factory Blemished" as "Build Outs". Use the parts to make other, different, Limited Editions (take the knives apart if need be, whatever parts are left to use - BuildOut). Charge more for these even rarer knives.
 
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