Should we have to mod a knife from new ?

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Apr 13, 2007
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I placed a similar question on the Scrapyards knife forum but nobody has made a comment, I guess they don't want to rock the Busse boat !!!

It seems that with some knives, Scrapyard and TOPS come to mind, as soon as people receive their new knives they feel the need to modify the edge due to the poor performance coming from the factory !!!!

Now these knives ain't cheap and not all of us have the power tools or ability to mod the edges ourselves so should we have to ?

If Joe Blow can quickly add an awesome edge using his slack sanding belts then why can't they come from the factory like this ??????

Am I just blowin steam cos I've had a few beers or do others think the same way ?:confused:
 
A high priced knife should come from the factory with a high caliber edge. If not then aren't you just buying a name instead of a knife?
 
In terms of modding a knife to your liking, its a matter of personal taste for many things. I'll often square my spines and don't mind doing so. But a knife should cut, and cut well from the factory. Buying a nice new sharp as a shovel knife is just no fun. And frankly I would be afraid to slack belt a new busse myself.
 
imo if you dont like the edge from the factory, then don't buy the knife=). If people buy them anyways, why would they invest in extra work for nothing--simple economics. Some companies build names, others build great knives
 
This is a topic that comes up from time to time.

I have a few thoughts.

What was wrong with the edge? In other words, was it bad for you, or bad for everyone?

If a knife has no edge, that is a problem. But, if the edge does not suit you, then that often becomes a matter of preference.

Machetes often come with an only OK edge, the manufacturer assumes that the user will sharpen it to their preference and use.

And really, the edge is the most transitory reality of a knife. If you need the knife, you will use it, if you use it, the initial edge will wear away, and you will have to put a new edge on.

I find a poor initial edge to be irratating, but certainly not enough of a problem to avoid a particular knife.

Also, of all the different things that could be wrong with a knife, a poor edge should be the thing that is easiest for a knife person to figure out. As I assume that a knife person will become a sharpening person too, else how can they get the most out of the knives that they own and love?

Marion
 
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i think it depends on the application of your knife and how much you can spend. my first "big" knife purchase was a Scrapyard SOD it was around $120 i think but it was exactly the sort of knife i was looking for jack of all trades and a lifetime warranty. i could barely swing the money for it at the time...and later sent it off to get a convexed edge. am i mad i had to mod it...not at all. works much better now. i have rarely bought a new knife that wasnt shaving sharp (except a few busses and used golok).
 
I think it really depends on the type of knife you are buying. I purchased a bark river golok and that thing was shaving sharp. I couldn't believe how sharp this thing was, especially since it was made for chopping into trees and cutting down limbs and what not. Sure enough, the edge chipped in a few places and I had to send it in to have the edge "thickened up." Bark River charged me NOTHING to do this and Mike was unbelievably accomidating and the work was done FAST. My golok doesn't have the same sharpened, hair popping, edge it did originally but it is now fairly sharp and doesn't chip. The golok was and still is one of my favorites but it calls to question what a knife manufacturer thinks is going to happen with their knives.

Do they make a super sharp knife that they think is going to sit on a shelf and not do much. Wow the customer with that initial edge and reap the rewards of reputation of an unbelievably sharp edge? Do they assume that the knife will be put to work immediatly and in a rough fashion and that the user that requires that functionality should have the skills to sharpen and maintain a tool of that calibre?

I guess you pick your poison in that regaurd and as Rat said, you can order the edge thinned out if you like and i'm sure from Bark river you can special order an edge thickened.

I would imagine that edges of knives are like hair styles on women. Easy to change and not neccescarily reflective of the core of the product. I like sharp but I also like workability. I also have the capability to make an edge to my liking and don't really worry about the out of box sharpness or edge angles of a blade that will soon need working anyway.

There are too many other factors to consider and I would hate to throw a more important factor under the buss just so a knife can shave hair off my arm the first day I have it.
 
A golok is a jungle knife. Take it to northern hardwoods and you need a thicker edge. Many knives are like this, capable of work in different environments, but only initially sharpened for one. You're going to sharpen it someday soon anyway.
 
hi Pitdog! :D

depends on what you plan to use the knife for!

as an example i dont use my SY SOD for making ultrafine fuzzies, I use it for chopping, and (this might make the WSS crowd gasp :eek: ) batoning. I pair it up with a thin edged folder or small fixed blade for the smaller tasks, food prep, fuzzies etc. As such, i want an edge that can handle heavy chopping, splitting etc. Factory edge was just fine for that,later i convexed it slightly.

my new Scrapper 5 came with a wicked sharp edge right out of the box, no mods needed, it shaves, makes fine fuzzies, and slits thru leather, meat, veggies cheese etc beautifully.
 
It seems to me that some guys buy a knife that's made for heavy use and abuse but want to thin the edge for EDC and lighter work. It may just be in the male DNA to "do it ourselves because we know we can make it better".
 
Am I just blowin steam cos I've had a few beers or do others think the same way ?:confused:

Fair enough, while I'm tokin' this here's my 2cents.

I think it depends on fitness and the clue trail.

I'd be as disenchanted to find a machete tuned to a thin razor edge as I would to find a small caper that came obtuse. Neither are suitable for purpose.

Then there's what Marion touched with “bad for you, or bad for everyone”:

To me that reads as who's purpose and style of using. Lobster crackers tend to be heavy and obtuse because of the way they are used by most people who buy them. It's beyond excepted it is welcomed. I couldn't in all good conscience buy one for use as a general kitchen knife and then bitch about having to do a lot of work on it because it doesn't cut very well. The tool just isn't fit for fine cutting tasks so reject it with no ill will or expect a bunch of work. Similarly, I have small German kitchen knives that I've taken to such acute convexes they are near the limit of what the metal will support. In the hands of someone using them how they are commonly used they are too extreme and would probably collapse. They'd do better with the factory stock edge that I despise. In sum, they are just bad for me at stock. Again, no ill will, reject it or do the work. Key to unraveling this for me is that the goods are of merchantable quality. They are fit for purpose, the common purpose, but not necessarily my purpose.

In contrast, there are vendors that try to manipulate that common purpose thing and I will reject those with malice. Few people would buy something like say a car, find it doesn't work very well at what cars are commonly used for, and then allow themselves to be happily fobbed off with... “and if you go to some corner of t'internet you'll find this level of crap performance at common tasks is actually all the rage...you just don't get it...but hey, if you want it to simply get you from your house to the shops there are loads of after market bits you can add on and some top notch mechanics out there that can make it do that for you...”. Seems some people will buy knives like that though. I like knives. I find knives special. But they aren't so special to me that normal reasoning rules don't apply. They have no magickal properties. A car that drives like a wheelbarrow or its on caterpillar tracks is a pretty lousy example of a car even if by some rouge chance that is exactly the kind of car I'm looking for. It's a niche monster, [mmm, a kinda sharpened pry bar but not a knife]. Similarly, a knife that levers, pounds and mashes well but cuts badly is a poor offering of a knife even if by some weird quirk a knife that works best as a hammer is exactly what I was looking for. This strikes me as the exact opposite of the scenario in the paragraph above. In that description it is the operator that is the oddity and not the tool. The tool is fit for the commonly expected purpose even though it may not be yours. In this case it is the tool that is the oddity and not fit for common purpose, not the user that thought they'd bought a knife.

I find it hard to make clear distinctions as to which to put on which pile in many cases. Knives are subtle and the boundaries can be blurred. Sometimes it doesn't take much to take two identical ones and make one a good cutter and the other one lousy. That isn't going to help with the “is it me or is it it” quandary. Yet with others it is glaringly obvious it isn't you. This is where the clue trail comes in. Are those same people telling you that knife X is supposed to be not so great at cutting closer to the body of knowledge we can draw from chefs in the real world in relation to lobster crackers? Or are they more akin to a little sample on the t'internet comprised of marketers, shills, friends, relatives and non-military military groupies selling you a hype knife? Personally, if I bought a car that drove like a golf cart I'd be looking to the real world and what kinds of things are commonly expected from cars. The last thing I would be doing would be driving over to the golf course in the pathetic offering so I could feel the warm round of applause from golf fanatics.

I also take into account other motives for the knife ending up at me the way it does. Did the maker stick that edge on that lobster cracker because that was what is required? Or did they simply do it serve their own ends whilst marketing some aspect - “here's a bit of A2 you can chop bricks with or your money back...sod that it won't cut...we can put a spin on that...we'll just play up the super industrial strength aspect and no one will notice”.

The last piece in my puzzle is what I envisage a company really feels about what it produces in its own heart of hearts so to speak. Because I've never seen any evidence of companies such as Moki, Hattori, I O Shen, Fällkniven .etc delivering anything but impeccable products one that came not quite as it ought to be would get the benefit of the doubt. I'd treat that as rogue, and I'd prefer to think that the seller would feel somewhat embarrassed about the defect. Yet others sound the alarm bells of really not GAS. Truly disgusting degrees of finish explained away under a coat of thick drain paint Not just machine a few minor machine marks but deep pits, scratches and gouges lead me to suspect that company truly doesn't care despite what they claim. They're just selling stuff. Dub on a shoddy edge and there's a knife I wouldn't touch with a stick at any price. Although my antipathy grows the more audacious such a company gets with the asking price. Some are flat out taking the piss, and I'd rather give the money to The Dogs Trust. No regrets. No excuses.

Ho Hum.
 
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There is a big difference between modifying an edge to what you want and "fixing" an edge that came screwed up. I can always take steel off an edge, I expect to do that for as long as I own the knife. With a knife that is truly going to be used the edge will be MY edge soon enough anyway.

I expect to know what type of edge geometry a knife comes with what angle (approximately) the maker puts on his edge. I also expect that the knife will be competently sharp at those angles. I can always reduce those angles if they aren't working for me.

Mac
 
It bothers me if I get a knife with edges already rolled, chipped, or dull as a butterknife (unless I bought a set of butter knives). Other than that, throw me in the "It's good enough if it has an edge that is good for what the knife is designed for." crowd.

There is a tendency here to always want a blade that can shave and make tiny fuzz sticks. If it's a bushcraft knife, that makes sense. If it's a rescue knife designed to cut webbing and such. . .not so much. If it's a knife made to be thrashed, a thin edge like that isn't very good at all.

But I took my sleep meds, maybe I don't make sense.
 
I placed a similar question on the Scrapyards knife forum but nobody has made a comment, I guess they don't want to rock the Busse boat !!!

It seems that with some knives, Scrapyard and TOPS come to mind, as soon as people receive their new knives they feel the need to modify the edge due to the poor performance coming from the factory !!!!

Now these knives ain't cheap and not all of us have the power tools or ability to mod the edges ourselves so should we have to ?

If Joe Blow can quickly add an awesome edge using his slack sanding belts then why can't they come from the factory like this ??????

Am I just blowin steam cos I've had a few beers or do others think the same way ?:confused:

Pitdog:

Do you mean the “Who Change's The Edge On Their Busse-knives?” thread? There are four pages of replies so far. Doesn’t sound like nobody has made a comment to me.
 
You can order the edge thinned out if you ask.

As Rat said you can ask for your edge to be thinned. You can always take more steel off...cant put it back on. Thats been said. I dont know if Scrapyard will thin the edge down....I have been meaning to ask that there.

I know Jerry has sent out shaving sheets to show that each knife was checked before it left. My SAR4LE without "paint" on it and without "pits and scratches" came with a beautiful convex edge that easily popped hair. Possibly the sharpest factory or whatever you'd call it knife I've had come to me.

Pitdog...your not rocking the Busse boat or any boat for that matter. If its a concern its a concern. I put edges on some of my larger knives with just sandpaper and elbow greese. I didnt like the edge on my S5 and ended up using my stones to get it where I wanted it. If it had came thinner it would have merley taken me less time to do what I was going to do anyway. But thats not for everyone.
 
Once there was a time I bought knife to collect.
But those knives were too beautiful, too great for me to hold myself back from using them.
So I used them.
Then there comes frustration as you know it.
Not only the edge, but also I modified the handle, sometimes to remove hot spots,
or to place lanyard hole.

After a few of these cases, I began to make knives for myself.
 
If you want something very specific, exactly the way you like it... you should expect to pay for custom work, or do it yourself.

Remember the silent "mass" in "production". Any production knife will be made to suit the needs of, and reduce the warranty work from, a wide variety of users, some skilled some... not.

Also remember that niche brands will have characteristics targeted to their own, well, niche. Otherwise they wouldn't exist for long. Which niche does Busse occupy? Delicate slicers?
 
I just got a Scrapper 5 not long ago and I was pleasantly suprised how nice the edge was.

Cuts well although not really comparable to the really great edges of the Bark Rivers and Fallknivens.

I've had some Busse and Swamp Rat and been generally unsatisfied with the edge. Not talking choppers here but small knives that should have fine edges.


But in general I agree with you Pit. Also have had to radically rework a lot of customs, where it seemed like the maker never really looked at the edge. I have got them that near the point and near the ricasso the two sides of the grind do not even meet up:thumbdn: It was like they sharpened the blade, shaved some hair off and that was it, not realizing the only part sharp was the middle of the blade they put to their arm:mad:
 
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