Show your natural whetstones!

[Ocelot85]

I love all of the new high tech abrasive technologies and sharpening systems we have now, but I still have a lot of admiration for all of the old fashioned natural whetstones from around the world that different cultures and people have used! I'm thinking of starting my own collection of natural whetstones, so show me what you guys have or seen and how they perform!

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I've got a bunch of black siliceous siltstone from a local beach that works a treat. No photos immediately at hand, but I've hand-lapped a bunch of it, and have even more that's waiting for spring so I can grind it down outside with a masonry disc before hand-finishing.

 

[Ocelot85]

Never tried it, interesting though I'll have to look into that. What approximate grit do you think it has, what kind of finish does it leave?

 

[Bill3152]

I have 2 dozen jnats and 6 coticule I use for razors. I don't think a natural has anything up on a DMT as far as sharpness goes. My razors are sharper than my knives btw.

 

[Mike Pierson]

I have several JNATS that I use exclusively on my knives.
They can be costly and just as anything else these days: they can and will be faked from sellers trying to scam the uninformed buyer.
These took me several years to aqcuire after a couple of long negotiations on 2 thru a friend in Japan.
2 came directly from old classic barbershops located in Japan.
The key I found is to "not be in a hurry" to buy, and a seller willing to provide a money back guarantee on your satisfaction.
I have never once regretted acquiring (paying for) mine and I have learned huge volumes of information about geology in general, Japanese regions & its geology, Japanese sword making, & the sharpening process & metal types, plus much information on the ancient "sword masters" & the historical knife makers of Japan along the way.
I have found using mine they provide a form of meditaion and or a "therapy like" process.
They give me great satisfaction to use.

 

[Ocelot85]

I have a several JNATS that I use exclusively on my knives.
They can be costly and just as anything else these days: they can and will be faked from sellers trying to scam the uninformed buyer.
These took me several years to aqcuire after a couple of long negotiations on 2 thru a friend in Japan.
2 came directly from old classic barbershops located in Japan.
The key I found is to "not be in a hurry" to buy, and a seller willing to provide a money back guarantee on your satisfaction.
I have never once regretted acquiring (paying for) mine and I have learned huge volumes of information about geology in general, Japanese regions & its geology, Japanese sword making, & the sharpening process & metal types, plus much information on the ancient "sword masters" & the historical knife makers of Japan along the way.
I have found using mine they provide a form if meditaion and or a "therapy like" process.
They give me great satisfaction to use.View attachment 1068914 View attachment 1068915 View attachment 1068920

Those look awesome Mike, thanks for sharing that. I'll admit that I'm pretty ignorant of JNAT stones, any suggestions on literature for them?

 

[Mike Pierson]

Thank you.
I found lots of great information on many different websites, and also youtube.
I also discovered an honest guy selling on etsy named Kieth Johnson (TomoNagura) that also has great videos mainly about straight razors but it applies to knives as well.
I have a few manmade stones as well but for me found that the JNATS provided myself with a different experience, which is exactly what I was hoping for...
I will post more links here as I search thru my bookmarks, and try to help out.
I can personally vouch for both TomoNagura and JapanToolIda.
If you have any questions about a stone your considering feel free to pm me too.

https://patheyman.com/primer-japanese-waterstones/
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/razors-on-jnat/
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/jns-grit-fines-and-hardnes/
http://www.japantool-iida.com/
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/jns-stones/
https://www.etsy.com/shop/TomoNagura

http://woodtreks.com/selection-care-and-feeding-of-waterstones/948/
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/nashst.html

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Never tried it, interesting though I'll have to look into that. What approximate grit do you think it has, what kind of finish does it leave?

Leaves a high mirror finish. Depending on the place that I grab it from, some is a little harder and some is a little softer. The softer stuff will raise a light slurry when used with firm pressure. I have yet to prep a piece large enough to make a truly good razor hone out of, but I'm certain it could be used effectively for such. It's part of the Bar Harbor Formation--you may possibly have siliceous siltstone in your locality but it won't be exactly the same as this stuff. There's a huge amount of variation between stones in different parts of the world and you're unlikely to find two formations that are truly twins. There's often variation within the local formation, let alone with a different spot where conditions were different.

That kind of variety of performance qualities was part of the inspiration with my synthetic sharpening stones. We tend to think of them as a simple combination of general abrasive type (aluminum oxide, silicon carbide, CBN, diamond), hardness (usually either really hard or really soft) and grit size, and that's it. There's soooooo many more variables to play with, and a lot of those more subtle differences like found in natural stones come out when you mess around with those bits. Changing the friability vs. toughness of the grit grade selection, the pressure used in molding, and formulation of the bond can really change the end results in a big way.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Here's the one I take backpacking/canoeing, a true "natural" silt stone i found in a local stream and flattened. Runs about 400-600 grit, works great on carbon and low RC stainless with a splash of water. I drilled a recess into the backside to double as a socket for a bow drill (still have never gotten it to work while camping but have started several in the backyard).

Bonus view of my revamped waterstone bridge with infinitely adjustable struts. The whole thing is a toolbox, with removable bath. Closeup with some wax on the surface from bouncing around in my pack with a safety candle.

 

[eKretz]

I have a large collection of natural stones. About 4 or 5 of them are local stones found near a glacial lake. One of my favorites is this one:

Cut from this stone I found:

It's about as fast a cutter as my fastest JNats, but just a touch lower in equivalent grit. Still puts a hell of a good shaving edge on a razor though.

 

[Ocelot85]

Here's the one I take backpacking/canoeing, a true "natural" silt stone i found in a local stream and flattened. Runs about 400-600 grit, works great on carbon and low RC stainless with a splash of water. I drilled a recess into the backside to double as a socket for a bow drill (still have never gotten it to work while camping but have started several in the backyard).

Bonus view of my revamped waterstone bridge with infinitely adjustable struts. The whole thing is a toolbox, with removable bath. Closeup with some wax on the surface from bouncing around in my pack with a safety candle.

That's a pretty cool set-up, I like it! Bonus points for the socket for the bow drill!

I have a large collection of natural stones. About 4 or 5 of them are local stones found near a glacial lake. One of my favorites is this one:

Cut from this stone I found:

It's about as fast a cutter as my fastest JNats, but just a touch lower in equivalent grit. Still puts a hell of a good shaving edge on a razor though.

What did you use to cut it? Tile saw? It looks nice! What kind of stone is it?

 

[eKretz]

Yes I used a tile saw. It is a slate. Here's a video from a friend of mine who tested it for me and took some nice images with his metallurgical scope:

 

[Bill3152]

How effective and efficient are these naturals with the super steels? And there's always a new one coming that will be hard to sharpen without diamonds.

 

[eKretz]

Not very. They fit more in the niche of sharpening the vintage tools and razors IMO. They can microbevel a super steel but they aren't going to be able to remove much.

 

[Bill3152]

Not very. They fit more in the niche of sharpening the vintage tools and razors IMO. They can microbevel a super steel but they aren't going to be able to remove much.

This is what I always thought. Perhaps some of the new guys should be made aware before they blow a wad on naturals. Lol.

 

[eKretz]

There have been a lot of discussions on the subject already...I think this is just more like a natural stone appreciation thread. Some natural stones can cut the super steels better than others - those with garnet or heavier concentrations of aluminum oxide for example. Personally I'd still recommend diamond plates for pretty much any "super" steel though.

 

[Ocelot85]

This is what I always thought. Perhaps some of the new guys should be made aware before they blow a wad on naturals. Lol.

There have been a lot of discussions on the subject already...I think this is just more like a natural stone appreciation thread. Some natural stones can cut the super steels better than others - those with garnet or heavier concentrations of aluminum oxide for example. Personally I'd still recommend diamond plates for pretty much any "super" steel though.

I intended it to be a appreciative and informative thread, like you said before they have their niche in sharpening and I think they're interesting from a historic and "primitive" simplistic approach. Thanks again for sharing your stones.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Not very. They fit more in the niche of sharpening the vintage tools and razors IMO. They can microbevel a super steel but they aren't going to be able to remove much.

Along those lines, I've sometimes used a 'surgical' black hard Arkansas as a deburring stone on wear-resistant steels prone to burring, like VG-10. In other words, just using it as something to remove bits of already-weakened metal at the edge, after sharpening them (for real) on other stones better-suited to that job. In that capacity, I sort of view them as a very hard, uncompounded strop OR an edge-alignment tool, like a 'steel' might be used as such, but little more than that. The upside to doing it this way is, the Ark stone really isn't hard enough to significantly alter what might be a preferred finish coming off the sharpening stone (of AlOx, SiC, diamond, etc), but still hard enough to scrub away or break off the weakly-attached stuff at the edge.

 

[Bill3152]

Along those lines, I've sometimes used a 'surgical' black hard Arkansas as a deburring stone on wear-resistant steels prone to burring, like VG-10. In other words, just using it as something to remove bits of already-weakened metal at the edge, after sharpening them (for real) on other stones better-suited to that job. In that capacity, I sort of view them as a very hard, uncompounded strop OR an edge-alignment tool, like a 'steel' might be used as such, but little more than that. The upside to doing it this way is, the Ark stone really isn't hard enough to significantly alter what might be a preferred finish coming off the sharpening stone (of AlOx, SiC, diamond, etc), but still hard enough to scrub away or break off the weakly-attached stuff at the edge.

Which could easily be done with a pasted strop or even clean leather.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Except the natural stone is considerably harder, so it won't deflect under pressure. So there's that.