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I am crushing you with my fingers!!!!
LOL!!
LOL!!
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Silat vs. Kali knife-which is better?
- Thread starter armbreaker 69
- Start date
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- Apr 2, 2006
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- 269
*slight modification of quote by me*
Funny, I find benefit in it. It's one of our MAIN tools for mutual intergration of the live-hand, torso & lower body. It's a good one to practise left versus right hand for evasion, targeting & whole body intergration.
It is also a good template to pratise all your other stuff (y'know-moving in, takedowns, etc)... however, I agree with you, isolated sparring is awesome.
I like the balance of both.:thumbup:
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- Apr 19, 2007
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Actually I shouldn't have said 'useless.' As far as developing coordination and working a drill that anyone can do that's safe and fun it's hard to beat something like tapi tapi. When I started doing kali in '90 I learned sumbrada from Vu and thought it was revolutionary (at the time).
Now as far as developing key fighting attributes I wouldn't consider doing tapi tapi. Isolated sparring would be far better utilized.
Now as far as developing key fighting attributes I wouldn't consider doing tapi tapi. Isolated sparring would be far better utilized.
I have trained in silat and escrima for many years. There are a myriad of different silat systems, and most have their own version of tapi-tapi. There are also Filipino systems of silat, Indonesian systems of silat and Malaysian systems of silat (not to mention Thailand, Burma, etc.).
I like the post above of silat and kali being different methodologies teaching the same art except that it could be argued that the methodology is a part of the actual art, and is certainly how the art is transmitted. That alone guarantees the differences. I've also heard that they are "same-same" and while they have many similarities, they are not the same. I would say they are close cousins. Most FMA had influences from the Spanish and other European influences which the other Southeast Asian countries simply did not become influenced by due to the heavier Chinese influences and Dutch and English who jealously guarded the Spice Islands. Different cultures and influences with different practices and exposures to usage and outsiders creating different adaptations of the arts require evolutions of the arts that mean they are no longer the same.
Now, some parts of the southern Philippines are very similar to some parts of the Indonesian Archipelago and had fewer Spanish and Portuguese influences. They also have "kuntaw" which is a Filipino version of kun tao. So, in many instances some kali will adopt the moves of silat and vice versa, while some silat will adopt the moves of kun tao. That leads to another observation. There are some silat styles (e.g., Indonesian Mustika Kwitang), that are obviously of kun tao origin, but they acknowledge only their silat heritage, and to be honest, there has been many years of "cross pollenization," however, once you know enough to observe the differences you can see them.
There are definite subtles differences in the way the practitioners move, the methods of training, the strategies and principles employed in general between silat and kali. But there are many similarities.
I'd say pick the one that you enjoy so much that you keep showing up to train for whatever reason.
I like the post above of silat and kali being different methodologies teaching the same art except that it could be argued that the methodology is a part of the actual art, and is certainly how the art is transmitted. That alone guarantees the differences. I've also heard that they are "same-same" and while they have many similarities, they are not the same. I would say they are close cousins. Most FMA had influences from the Spanish and other European influences which the other Southeast Asian countries simply did not become influenced by due to the heavier Chinese influences and Dutch and English who jealously guarded the Spice Islands. Different cultures and influences with different practices and exposures to usage and outsiders creating different adaptations of the arts require evolutions of the arts that mean they are no longer the same.
Now, some parts of the southern Philippines are very similar to some parts of the Indonesian Archipelago and had fewer Spanish and Portuguese influences. They also have "kuntaw" which is a Filipino version of kun tao. So, in many instances some kali will adopt the moves of silat and vice versa, while some silat will adopt the moves of kun tao. That leads to another observation. There are some silat styles (e.g., Indonesian Mustika Kwitang), that are obviously of kun tao origin, but they acknowledge only their silat heritage, and to be honest, there has been many years of "cross pollenization," however, once you know enough to observe the differences you can see them.
There are definite subtles differences in the way the practitioners move, the methods of training, the strategies and principles employed in general between silat and kali. But there are many similarities.
I'd say pick the one that you enjoy so much that you keep showing up to train for whatever reason.
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2007
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- 97
That's like saying Karate and Tae Kwon Do are the same art. They certainly do look alike. FMA and silat weaponry are very much alike, but I've seen Pak Victor's tape on knife fighting and (like 69 mentioned), the Serak guys tend not to slice the arms up as they go in for the kill. Defanging of the snake or cutting the weapon arm is a trademark of many FMA knife arts like Pekiti Tirsia and Inosanto's Kali. Is this tactic representative of all FMA? No. If you get the chance to see some Sayoc clips on the net, they also tend to bypass the arms and go for the carotid (literally, that's their angle 1).
Again I have to mention that whether you train in Silat (be it Serak, Seni Gayung or Mande Muda) your knife defense will be be more heavily influenced by your body type and age, than what your guro showed you. I can't imagine moving the same way 20 years from now against a knife, much less 10 years from now. But for the record, I've been exposed to far more kali knife application than silat knife.
