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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Silly knife pricing
- Thread starter Red Devil
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- Jan 15, 2002
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If you go to the mall you will pay retail. It pays for their exposure, rent, AC, walk-by-eye-candy, etc. If you only knew how much they buy those knives for. Did retail cutlery for over six years. If you want a bargain DON'T go to the mall. If you want the best place to SEE, go to the mall or some other cutlery shop where you can view the piece in your hand. Just don't be an ass by telling the guy you will now proceed to buying it online. That deserves a punch in the teeth for wasting his time. 
-Jason
-Jason
MelancholyMutt
Doggy Style
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Brick and mortar stores and internet have their place in this world. The local stores put money back into the local economy. It keeps jobs local and your own job safe.
If I'm saving a ton of money, then I will buy from the internet. If the purchase is relatively inexpensive, or similar to internet prices, I go "brick and mortar".
Case in point, my Navy MK2's (marine combat knife) AF survival knives and spyderco folders are purchased locally. A MK2 goes for about 30 bucks online while about 40 locally. It's only 10 bucks so I buy at the store.
Now a Chris Reeve project 2 goes for about 315 online and even if a local store sells it for that much, you're taking a 26 dollar hit with tax, which is not a problem, but most local retailers don't stock it, and if they did, would sell it for much more than the 315.
I factor in the fact that I can take it home immediately and play with it. That is worth up to a hundred bucks for me...LOL
If I'm saving a ton of money, then I will buy from the internet. If the purchase is relatively inexpensive, or similar to internet prices, I go "brick and mortar".
Case in point, my Navy MK2's (marine combat knife) AF survival knives and spyderco folders are purchased locally. A MK2 goes for about 30 bucks online while about 40 locally. It's only 10 bucks so I buy at the store.
Now a Chris Reeve project 2 goes for about 315 online and even if a local store sells it for that much, you're taking a 26 dollar hit with tax, which is not a problem, but most local retailers don't stock it, and if they did, would sell it for much more than the 315.
I factor in the fact that I can take it home immediately and play with it. That is worth up to a hundred bucks for me...LOL
One thing to keep in mind is that most manufacturers set thier MSRP with Brick and Mortar Stores in mind.
The manufacturers know how much they will be selling the knives to the dealers for and are very aware of the average mark up required for that dealer to remain profitable.
So I don't balk at a Brick and Mortar Store charging full MSRP.
I also appreciate that for various reasons Internet dealers are typically able to remain profitable at less than MSRP.
I also believe that it is very bad form to go to a Brick and Mortar Store, make a buying decision and then go purchase online to save a few dollars.
There are damned few quality Brick and Mortar Stores with knowledgable employees and that trick is almost guarranteed to result in even fewer.
The manufacturers know how much they will be selling the knives to the dealers for and are very aware of the average mark up required for that dealer to remain profitable.
So I don't balk at a Brick and Mortar Store charging full MSRP.
I also appreciate that for various reasons Internet dealers are typically able to remain profitable at less than MSRP.
I also believe that it is very bad form to go to a Brick and Mortar Store, make a buying decision and then go purchase online to save a few dollars.
There are damned few quality Brick and Mortar Stores with knowledgable employees and that trick is almost guarranteed to result in even fewer.
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If the Makers were 'smart', they'd have a seperate pricing structure for Internet Dealers vs Brickk and Mortar. Of course, what do they care, as long as they get their mark, anyone could sell it.And that is the problem. Conversly, I know people who buy diamonds for 'super' prices on the 'net, but when they get it, the piece has a super deep pavillion or is miscut... so, yeah the price is great, but the quality isn't what you'd want, and wasn't disclosed on the description. KNives are different, perhaps the 'net IS the wave of the future.... and yet, I love to hold them first, flick 'em, clip it, etc, to see just how it feels. It's a tough thing, isn't it...?
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I like playing with knives at stores, but I also like buying knives that I've never handled from the Internet. Nothing quite looks the same in real life as it does from a picture and it's exciting to open up that package and see what you've got.
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Before I moved to florida, About 10 mins away was Alpine knives. I thought they were expensive(in contrast to the internet), and was always shopping for a deal. Now that I live in florida, with no knife shops handy, I will look you in the eye and say I will spend more money to have a real store. like 20-30% more. I really miss that shop. Support your B&M store before you have no place to look at knives, or handle them before yoiu purchase.
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An interesting question:
If all the Brick and Mortar knife stores went out of business, would the manufacturers continue to sell to online dealers?
After all, most manufacturers already sell knives at MSRP directly to the public via their websites. And, they already provide basically the same exact service as an online retailer.
Why sell to the competition?
It's understandable why manufacturers sell to B&M's - no knife company has the resources to launch hundreds of retail stores in which consumers can handle their products and be helped by live people.
But, once the B&M's disappear - which I think is a fairly good possibilty in the next 20-30 years - I would be willing to bet that knife manufacturers will start selling products directly online only.
Just a thought.
MelancholyMutt brought up a good point - B&M stores have in most states a big disadvantage in sales tax. For small purchases, this is made up by the cost of shipping. But, in larger purchases - like a $150+ knife, the sales tax usually exceeds shipping costs.
Here in Los Angeles, a $150 knife will cost me an additional $12.38 in sales tax. Buying that knife from an online dealer would cost ~$6 in shipping, a savings of $6.38 per knife.
Buy 25 knives with an average cost of $150, and that difference adds up - to $159.38 - or basically a free knife, assuming that all the knives are shipped individually.
Plus, online dealers are significantly lower priced. That $150 knife might only be $100 online - another $50 in savings! ($56.38 total counting the difference in sales tax vs shiping) At those prices, I could buy 3 knives where I used to only be able to buy two.
Personally, I'd rather buy a knife in a store. But, with such a difference in price, I don't really feel like I have a choice.
I don't see how the B&M's are going to be able to compete, especially as the economy begins to rely more and more on the internet.
-- Rob
If all the Brick and Mortar knife stores went out of business, would the manufacturers continue to sell to online dealers?
After all, most manufacturers already sell knives at MSRP directly to the public via their websites. And, they already provide basically the same exact service as an online retailer.
Why sell to the competition?
It's understandable why manufacturers sell to B&M's - no knife company has the resources to launch hundreds of retail stores in which consumers can handle their products and be helped by live people.
But, once the B&M's disappear - which I think is a fairly good possibilty in the next 20-30 years - I would be willing to bet that knife manufacturers will start selling products directly online only.
Just a thought.
MelancholyMutt brought up a good point - B&M stores have in most states a big disadvantage in sales tax. For small purchases, this is made up by the cost of shipping. But, in larger purchases - like a $150+ knife, the sales tax usually exceeds shipping costs.
Here in Los Angeles, a $150 knife will cost me an additional $12.38 in sales tax. Buying that knife from an online dealer would cost ~$6 in shipping, a savings of $6.38 per knife.
Buy 25 knives with an average cost of $150, and that difference adds up - to $159.38 - or basically a free knife, assuming that all the knives are shipped individually.
Plus, online dealers are significantly lower priced. That $150 knife might only be $100 online - another $50 in savings! ($56.38 total counting the difference in sales tax vs shiping) At those prices, I could buy 3 knives where I used to only be able to buy two.
Personally, I'd rather buy a knife in a store. But, with such a difference in price, I don't really feel like I have a choice.
I don't see how the B&M's are going to be able to compete, especially as the economy begins to rely more and more on the internet.
-- Rob
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- Dec 2, 1999
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- 12,249
There will always be some people that don't use the internet. What's puzzled me is why do manufacturers let B&M's dictate their pricing policies via MSRP.
IMO, manufacturers should sell by quantity, that is the larger the quantity, the lower the price, then let the chips fall where they may. I would imagine once a knife company determines a significant majority of their sales occur over the net, that's what they will do.
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- Nov 30, 2000
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- 860
In 20 or 30 years, I doubt there will be many first world consumers that don't use the internet. I think in a lot of cases, they will have no choice (especially with utilities, airlines, insurance, banking, etc). But, thats just my opinion.
As for your second point - Why not stop wholesaling altogether and go with a direct sales to consumer approach?
-- Rob
Originally posted by Epsilon
If you go to the mall you will pay retail. It pays for their exposure, rent, AC, walk-by-eye-candy, etc. If you only knew how much they buy those knives for. Did retail cutlery for over six years. If you want a bargain DON'T go to the mall. If you want the best place to SEE, go to the mall or some other cutlery shop where you can view the piece in your hand. Just don't be an ass by telling the guy you will now proceed to buying it online. That deserves a punch in the teeth for wasting his time.
-Jason
I like several of your points in here - particularly the one about not being an ass.
Too bad your good manners can't be bottled!Now for my perspective. I own a mall store. And, it is incorrect t assume a mall store will not negotiate. I match the price of any competitor - including the internet- as long as it is not a loss for me. So, before deciding we are all "too" expensive, please be sure to look around. Malls are extremely expensive to be in - but- it is my hope cutlery store owners like me can someday move out, away from the mall and still do a good business.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2001
- Messages
- 118
Shiloh,
Where is your store? I also own a knife store. I finally moved out of the mall after 2 1/2 yrs to a free-standing store. Because of lower rent and employee costs I can (in theory) lose half of my business and still do better overall. However, I really don't want to test that theory.
Good independent brick and mortor cutlery stores may die out. Retail in general is a tough business. Unfortunately, then young people with an interest in knives will only have the flea market stores that generally sell junk, or have to sort through a quagmire of junk websites to find a few sites with good knives (or worse yet believe the stuff on the HSN knife show). Most will grow up thinking United Cutlery is top of the line. I know, because we get those customers every day. A good brick and mortor store will spend as much time educating the customer as selling. It takes actually handling knives to understand the differences between a good knife and a cheap knockoff. That isn't something you can do before you buy with a website.
Pam
Where is your store? I also own a knife store. I finally moved out of the mall after 2 1/2 yrs to a free-standing store. Because of lower rent and employee costs I can (in theory) lose half of my business and still do better overall. However, I really don't want to test that theory.
Good independent brick and mortor cutlery stores may die out. Retail in general is a tough business. Unfortunately, then young people with an interest in knives will only have the flea market stores that generally sell junk, or have to sort through a quagmire of junk websites to find a few sites with good knives (or worse yet believe the stuff on the HSN knife show). Most will grow up thinking United Cutlery is top of the line. I know, because we get those customers every day. A good brick and mortor store will spend as much time educating the customer as selling. It takes actually handling knives to understand the differences between a good knife and a cheap knockoff. That isn't something you can do before you buy with a website.
Pam
Bravo Pam! My stores are in Eastern Washington. The funniest thing happened this week. A customer came in with his dad - and they immediately started to tell us how high are prices were. So I asked them what they had purchased recently from a free standing store. They pointed out a knife and told me," We only paid $90 for that one." And, while it broke my heart:barf: I had to tell them that was the exact same price mine was at.
Where I live there is a very limited range in what you can get in 'B+M' stores, just the SAKS and multitools really. I think it is possible to get a really good price and great customer service online, look at NewGraham or Bayou Lafourche, both have great prices and good reputations for fair customer service. Of course you do lose the ability to handle in person, which can be a big factor.