How To Single cut file leaving waves in metal

Leave plunge line you created with a chainsaw file as it is and grind like this ...you will finish that small part last . I can bet that if you move blade as I say you will have no waves , look at the angle on file teeth .. .

Thanks for the tip, I will give it a shot.

It looks to me like the problem is with the section of particle board (MDF) jig the blade is clamped to. It is not stiff enough and causing the chatter in the jig/board rather than the file itself. The waves are worse at the plunge line side because that is at the end of a cantilever beam where you have the most deflection / chatter. You need to make a much stiffer jig to clamp the blade to.

I agree. The chatter area corresponds to your overhang. It gets worse as you go because you have more surface contact between the file and blade, increasing friction, swarf, and file "skipping", leading to chatter.

Ah, okay. Both of these make sense. Don't know why I didn't think of that.

Maybe face glue a few yellow pine 2 x 4's into a 4" wide stack and then run them edge up through a jointer and planer. That should give you all the stiffness your jig needs.

I don't have a jointer and planter, so I may have to figure something else out. For now, moving the knife towards the center of the jig seems like a solid way to go.

Thanks for the help! I will give your suggestions a shot and report back.
 
Moving the knife blade inwards is a band-aid at best. Stiffen your jig; attach dimensional lumber or angle iron or something underneath. Dimensional lumber shouldn't need jointing. Or construct a new jig of stiffer design and materials.
 
When filing with a jig, the first side is simple, because the steel bar back is flat against the jig. When you flip to the second side, the bevel taper and distal taper make the tip off the jig. The better jigs can compensate for this. Some have screws that are adjusted all the way down the blade to support it in sanding/filing.
 
When filing with a jig, the first side is simple, because the steel bar back is flat against the jig. When you flip to the second side, the bevel taper and distal taper make the tip off the jig. The better jigs can compensate for this. Some have screws that are adjusted all the way down the blade to support it in sanding/filing.

I've now had it happen on the first side of this other knife. I wonder if it is poor filing technique. I notice if I file across the waves in a specific direction, they tend to go away. I also have the knife closer to the centerline of the jig. Do you have any recommendations of where to look for better jig designs?
 
"... Do you have any recommendations of where to look for better jig designs?"

Don't use jigs.
 
"... Do you have any recommendations of where to look for better jig designs?"

Don't use jigs.

Not to be a dick, but that's kind of a useless answer to me. I'm sure it's a practice makes perfect thing, but I tried freehand filing a bevel, and it turned out so much worse than with a jig. If I can reliably make nice bevels on a jig (aside from the current issue), vs going through lots of steel to get good at freehand filing, why would I do the freehand?
 
The "why" is that every knife won't work on a jig. The other part is you won't really learn how to control the filing/grinding with a jig.

Your eyes can detect minute things and your hands can feel things. This allows your brain to make adjustments as needed. ... a jig is a fixed and unfeeling device that only does one thing without knowing or thinking about it. It doesn't care if it is doing it right or wrong.
 
The "why" is that every knife won't work on a jig. The other part is you won't really learn how to control the filing/grinding with a jig.

Your eyes can detect minute things and your hands can feel things. This allows your brain to make adjustments as needed. ... a jig is a fixed and unfeeling device that only does one thing without knowing or thinking about it. It doesn't care if it is doing it right or wrong.

Okay, thank you. That was informative and helpful. Though it still seems there is so much higher chance of error when hand filing then when using a jig, or even hand grinding on a belt grinder. Each file stroke has a chance of being wrong, or not being at the right angle. I assume it would just take practice, but I do fail to see how to do it well.
 
Back when I used to use a file jig, once I got to the second bevel on the opposite side I would use something to solidly shim under the tip and belly area of the underside of the blade to keep it from flexing and to keep a nice solid surface to file against to remove any chattering. You can use a scrap of wood or the like that's about half the thickness of the steel, just enough to keep the blade solid but not so much that it would end up raising the tip up and end up changing the bevel angle.

Also, I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with a file jig. They have some quirks to work around but plenty of people start out using them now days (ever since Aaron Gough popularized them with his YT video on how to make and use one) and a lot of them get decent results. I do agree that's it's good to also learn to work freehand for when a specific blade will benefit from freehand filing, but for smaller knives and crisp bevel lines they work fine.

I made these illustrations a number of years ago for somebody (I forget who) that was asking about my jig and how it was made, which was before Aaron made his video so it's a bit different than his design, but I think adds a bit more flexibility with room for moving the file around. So if you're interested, here are a couple pictures of how it's put together and how it's set up etc.





It's just two lengths of square steel tube with two lengths threaded drill rod going through each end of the tube stock, and a couple of bolts holding the bottom one to the bench and beneath the top bar to keep it at the desired height for the file angle. Just ignore the wooden stick I used in illustration to attach the file to and instead use a firm steel rod or tube of some sort. The rod/tube being round help allow you to rotate the file just a bit and the belly and tip area of the bevel.

These are the only pictures I made which only show the side view. I have an old YT vid back from 2012 with some footage of me using it so you can see how I have mine set up. Here's a link to the vid in which you can see the jig starting at around 1:19 into it: (Just add the www. to it, I don't want to bog down the page with some old video of mine)

youtube.com/watch?v=mUyoaXMQDy8&t=212s


You can also see what I used as a guide to file in my plunges, which was just a small piece of bar stock I had between the C-clamp and the blade.

It's not pretty but it got the job done. The drill press vise I have the 2x4 clamped in that the blade is clamped on was my main vise I used for cutting up steel and bar stock with my angle grinder, and it's all attached to a wooden saw horse I could take outside to keep the grinding dust and sparks outside. I didn't have much room in my shed at the time so I had to get as much use out of that saw horse as I could, so I used it as a work bench at times as well as for my file jig.... hence, it's ugly lol. Anyway, it should be enough for you to get the concept, which I'm certain can be improved upon. This may be completely useless to ya but it just might help, so I figured I'd share it with ya.


~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
 
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I know you guys like to use your jigs when filing, but I never did see the reason why. All you are doing is making a series of cuts in the steel, starting at the edge, working your way up toward the spine. They don't have to be perfect every single pass like they are with a jig. What matters most is the very end of the process of filing, where your final cuts are done by draw filing. This is what ensures that your bevels are flat. When I started making knives by using files, I considered using a jig, but quickly realized that there was really no need to do so. But, if you feel comfortable doing it, and it's fast enough for you (not like cutting bevels with a file is fast), more power to you! My first cut would be at the edge, touching my edge scribe line. Once that pass was made, I would "draw file" that initial cut, just to make sure the cut touching my edge scribe line was straight. After that, I would just work my way up. Occasionally draw filing during passes, but always finishing with draw filing the full bevel.
 
Back when I used to use a file jig...

It's not pretty but it got the job done. The drill press vise I have the 2x4 clamped in that the blade is clamped on was my main vise I used for cutting up steel and bar stock with my angle grinder, and it's all attached to a wooden saw horse I could take outside to keep the grinding dust and sparks outside. I didn't have much room in my shed at the time so I had to get as much use out of that saw horse as I could, so I used it as a work bench at times as well as for my file jig.... hence, it's ugly lol. Anyway, it should be enough for you to get the concept, which I'm certain can be improved upon. This may be completely useless to ya but it just might help, so I figured I'd share it with ya.

Thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can make any use of it!

I know you guys like to use your jigs when filing, but I never did see the reason why. All you are doing is making a series of cuts in the steel, starting at the edge, working your way up toward the spine. They don't have to be perfect every single pass like they are with a jig. What matters most is the very end of the process of filing, where your final cuts are done by draw filing. This is what ensures that your bevels are flat. When I started making knives by using files, I considered using a jig, but quickly realized that there was really no need to do so. But, if you feel comfortable doing it, and it's fast enough for you (not like cutting bevels with a file is fast), more power to you! My first cut would be at the edge, touching my edge scribe line. Once that pass was made, I would "draw file" that initial cut, just to make sure the cut touching my edge scribe line was straight. After that, I would just work my way up. Occasionally draw filing during passes, but always finishing with draw filing the full bevel.

To me (obviously a noob), it seems like a jig with essentially a fixed angle, takes so much of the guesswork and variables out of the equation. I still draw file at the end, but it's mostly just evening out any weird areas, and not taking much material off. I'm sure it's a practice thing, but freehand just never felt right to me. I couldn't get anything useful out of the one bevel I did with it, so much so that I went back over it with a jig and made it look good.
 
The angle you grind is always going to be governed by 2 things: 1. How thick the blade is 2. How high you take the grind. There is no guess work to do, either with a jig or freehand. It is what it is and the only variable is going to be how high you take the grind. But keep doing what you're doing if it's working for you.
 
The angle you grind is always going to be governed by 2 things: 1. How thick the blade is 2. How high you take the grind. There is no guess work to do, either with a jig or freehand. It is what it is and the only variable is going to be how high you take the grind. But keep doing what you're doing if it's working for you.

That's not what I meant. I meant a jig will give you the same fixed angle every stroke you make, whereas that's not a guarantee with freehand work. I may be able to get close to a specific angle every pass, but close is not the same as hitting that angle every time. And since a jig lets me hit that angle every time, it's pretty straight and flat by the time the bevel is finished, so draw filing is not a long afair.

I do appreciate your input on this thread and others. Your advice was the reason I picked up the Pferd Chipbreaker.
 
To make freehand filing more consistent, you could shim (or make a simple jig) to clamp the blade at angle so the file is flat (level) as you work. You could even use a bubble level on top of the file if you wanted.
 
Free hand comments aside, you are definitely getting chatter due to lack of stiffness in your jig with how it is clamped in the vise. Also probably worse in the second bevel due to lack of support after cutting the first.
 
To make freehand filing more consistent, you could shim (or make a simple jig) to clamp the blade at angle so the file is flat (level) as you work. You could even use a bubble level on top of the file if you wanted.


Free hand comments aside, you are definitely getting chatter due to lack of stiffness in your jig with how it is clamped in the vise. Also probably worse in the second bevel due to lack of support after cutting the first.

I might try that, but it seems like a similar amount of set up as the jig itself.

I'll just have to experiment with securing the jig. I tried shimming the blade when working on the second bevel, and still got waves primarily toward the plunge line.
 
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