Single guard or double?

[i4Marc]

I'm going to ask the question here and also in the knifemaker's subforum so I can get a variety of perspectives.

When designing or using a large Bowie or chopper, do you favor a single guard or double guard......and why?

I watched Jason's video here:

He is not a fan of the double guard on a chopper and has a valid reason.

I admire Jason's work and experience but others have their own opinions and probably have good points to make as well. I have my own ideas and trust my instincts but I do not have the years of experience using knives in the real world that some do so I am open to considering different points of view.

I do not want to open the can of worms known as "what is the difference between a chopper and a bowie?" but if you feel there is a difference and that helps make the case one way or the other for single or double guard I'm interested in hearing it. A reason might be something like "a chopper is a utilitarian knife and not having a guard on top allows multiple grip positions for different types of work. A Bowie is a weapon and the top guard is necessary to keep an opponent's blade from sliding up the spine and removing the fingers from your hand".

Thoughts?

 

[Lorien]

well, I do have years of experience using and designing choppers and see absolutely no need for a top guard, and can think of a number of good reasons to not have one. Top guards on choppers is like lipstick on a pig. Imo, of course.

 

[i4Marc]

well, I do have years of experience using and designing choppers and see absolutely no need for a top guard, and can think of a number of good reasons to not have one. Top guards on choppers is like lipstick on a pig. Imo, of course.

And on Bowies? If you take the top lug off a Bowie does that make it a chopper?

 

[Dawkind]

I'm a fan of a very abbreviated top 'guard', something to put my thumb against if thrusting.

 

[sheathmaker]

Somewhat in line with this thread, my question is why have an "S" guard at all. I can't see where they are any more useful than a straight double guard, and they are a pain in the ass for your local sheath maker. An abbreviated top guard is good per Dudley's comment, but in the whole scheme of things not absolutely necessary.

 

[i4Marc]

Yes, always good to keep your local sheath maker in mind!

Maybe Parfums95 will opine as I hear he has three or four bowies and choppers.

 

[Lorien]

And on Bowies? If you take the top lug off a Bowie does that make it a chopper?

not in my opinion. To me, a bowie is more of a fantasy knife. Of course they can be used for practical things, but at their heart, they are 'fighting' knives, and large knives designed as weapons are pretty much obsolete in a practical sense, in this day and age. Hence the term, never bring a knife to a gun fight.

I've seen more poorly designed choppers than well designed ones, and I think it's a result of lack of experience using one by either the maker or the designer. Bowies allow for a lot more artistic license, since they are much less likely to be used for their intended purpose- which is NOT primarily utilitarian.

 

[SharpByCoop]

To Paul's question: Look at my avatar. I 'get it' that it's a pain to sheath. It simply looks symmetrical and sexy.

Chopper: Lose the guard? (Custom choppers have a MUCH higher tendency to actually get 'used'.)

Bowie: For fighting. Like we always do with them. So make it with a double guard for thrust and extra protection.

I suggest a 'set'. One flashy, one utilitarian. Or both flashy. Cool beans!

 

[i4Marc]

Ok, so it sounds like your thoughts are in line with mine. Just wanted to get some other opinions.

 

[Hengelo_77]

I've read that some people like to have their thumb on top of the handle to help aim the point stabbing.
Along that line a double guard makes sence.
Top right pic on the book.

Personaly I like knives without a guard at all. You can have a dropped edge to protect your index finger.
I like the edge as close to my indexfinger as possible without anything in the way

 

[J. Doyle]

My personal and favorite preference is knives with no guards at all.

Functionally, I feel guards get in the way (I wouldn't necessarily say often) more than they serve any real function.

Aesthetically, I feel they can sometimes interrupt the flow or in a few cases actually visually detract from a knife.

In the strictest of terms, a dedicated chopper wouldn't need a guard at all because the action being performed wants to pull the knife out of your hand, the exact opposite direction of the guard area.

I can't think of a single utilitarian reason (knife fighting/defense is not a realistic thing to myself and 99% of the population) where I would NEED a guard on any knife of any type. Violent uncontrolled stabbing just doesn't come into my knife work.

That said, I don't dislike guards completely and I make/own plenty of knives with guards. Some look really cool.

More strictly on point, if I had a guard on any general bowie/camp/utility knife, a nice single lug would be fitting I think. Outside of a dedicated fighting knife, a double guard seems less practical.

 

[Lorien]

watching Jason's vid was really interesting, particularly the points he made regarding the forward finger groove. I totally agree with him in a general sense. Some time ago, I set out to challenge my disdain for finger choils by designing a knife for CPK that has that feature. Going through that process, and coming out with what I regard as one of my best designs was highly illuminating. This goes to my feeling that there are tons of knives out there which integrate features simply for the sake of the feature, without careful consideration of how the knife will be used or for the safety of those using it

 

[JParanee]

On a chopper and some swords I dont need a guard but I do like index points that can be guard like

The Turks head on this piece is an example



The Knight Khuks which i believe to be the finest Khuks I’ve ever handled have a great handle that really index’s and rocks well in hand










On Bowie’s that are not camp oriented blades a double guard is a must









If there were ever too much guard it would be an HB but it still works



Fighters can go all ways but i prefer at least a half guard









Sam does great half guards and properly sized double guards









So when designed well I like um all

 

[Bigfattyt]

I go both ways. I like choppers with a half guard, and some without. I have choppers both ways.

I think my only double guard was a Trailmaster Bowie (one of the san mai versions).

I absolutely love the look of a double guard on a proper bowie.

I also have a few HI khukri that don't have a guard.

 

[steevee]

Such an interesting topic!
Visually I like when something's going on at the top of a guard. Sometimes design feels empty whitout top guard, but it's just me...

I like to use this design on a chopper:

It looks pretty dope to me and it is more user friendly than classic double guard, especially when using extended grip, etc.

I was using guardless bowie for about 2 years,

Used it almost every day, I really liked the design but I cut myself too many times.
It happened usually while grabing the knife whitout looking at it, when frequently changing the grip or handling it in the dark around the bonfire.

It's always nice to have a guard at the bottom, it dosen't have to protect Your fingers mechanically when stabbing or anything else. It just says to You "hey, that's the end of the handle, grab it any further and you are going to have a bad day". Top guard is not necesseary but bottom one is always a good thing to have, even better thing is to know Your blade well and have respect for it.

 

[i4Marc]

Thanks guys for your thoughtful posts. It has given me much to think about. Obviously there are no hard and fast rules but I'm a little surprised at how many folks prefer no guard at all. Aesthetics are important to me so I will still consider that aspect when designing or building knives but I will definitely explore the guardless chopper more, thanks to your valuable input.