Situation Deescalated

KurtisKurt · Feb 26, 2001

Originally posted by Hoodoo:
If you "show" a bunch of kids a knife to scare them, who's to say they won't whip out a gun and blow your head off?

(Snip Story's of 2 Darwin Award runner-up's)

The moral of the story is don't flash a weapon unless you intend to use it. IMO, of course.

While you are definitely right in most cases, my post was refer to this scenario:

Originally posted by FullerH:
Ten years ago, i had a similar situation on an elevator in the Washington, DC, subway system. When one punk reached for the "Emegency Stop" button and the other came toward me, I pulled out a Spyderco Police and did a Spyderco Drop. Suddenly, everybody's minds focussed on getting out of the elevator while I swiped the back of the blade against my leg and put the knife away. I went on down to the subway, shaking all of the way.

I would not pull a knife in this scenario but I am in my prime and trained to deploy under worst circumstances.
20 Years from now this will be exactly my reaction to the scenario above.

Kudos to FullerH.

Bye Kurt

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Money talks...but all mine ever says is good-bye.

www.selbstverteidigung.org

Some Knife's

[This message has been edited by KurtisKurt (edited 02-25-2001).]

MAURICE · Feb 26, 2001

Originally posted by Will.223:
It's just sucks when you can't go the the mall ATM to get money without fear of being robbed.

AMEN.

I would have killed them all. They knew it and I knew it. That's just the way it is. I hope nobody is offended.

Will

Click to expand...

im not offended,i would have done the same thing.
me and some friends were at the mall the other night,being followed by some freak.i was going to confront him,so my friends went outside,and i looked for him.i never found him,he got off lucky.i wouldnt have killed him or even escelated it.i wanted to know why he was following us.too bad he ran

sgtmike88 · Feb 25, 2001

After rereading the thread with a more
objective viewpoint, I may have overreacted. No excuses, but a John Wayne quote may be shed some light on my mindset here, "Don't mess with me, Bureaucrat, I
got a touch of the hangover." I'm sorry.

Those of you here who are not LEO's should read the following:

I believe (and am supported by case law) that a weapon should not be displayed by a
citizen unless as a last resort measure to thwart the use, threatened use, or imminent use of deadly physical force. The word "threat" is key here.

In order for a threat to be present; the perp must have the ability to hurt you, the opportunity to hurt you, and must be behaving in such a manner as to make
YOU feel jeopardized. (In example, a man with a large knife at 50 meters from you has the ability, but not the opportunity to hurt you, therefore, the feeling of jeopardy is not present. If that same man were to see
you and immediately begin to rapidly advance towards you while screaming "I'm gonna cut you," feelings of jeopardy should occur and give rise to a fight or flight response by you.)

Facing multiple unarmed or armed adversaries, facing a singular armed adversary, or facing a singular unarmed
adversary with known advantages (such as martial arts skills / pro boxer / etc) MAY give rise to the feeling of extreme jeopardy and justify a deadly force response to attack or imminent attack IF retreat is
not possible or practical. Most states and
territories require a citizen (who is not a LEO) to retreat if they can do so in complete safety to themself and others, before deadly force can be authorized.

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.

Paracelsus · Feb 25, 2001

Thanks Mike! That was a great post.

Mo, I believe that means that if you go looking for trouble, the law may not see your side of things should you have found the guy, and a knife fight broke out.

This is a really difficult situation that I hope I will never have to deal with. Trying to stay out of such situations, but being prepared for them with the right mindset is the best thing.

Paracelsus, tactically non-tactical

Ebbtide · Feb 25, 2001

May I be the "Devil's Advocate"?
I think these guys were...what's the hip word nowadays...frontin' (In my day "Psyching you out") They wanted to see you twitch, make ya squirm. It's a power trip thing. I see it alot...
If they wanted to rob I doubt that they'd announce it. More like they'd make a grab for the cash while it was inbetween machine and pocket.
You did the exact right thing, show no fear, didn't squirm, therefore didn't tempt them. At the same time you didn't up the ante and challange their twisted sense of manhood by drawing or verbally 'calling them out'.
Again, I wasn't there and it is JMHO

Stay safe,
Ebbtide

cockroachfarm · Feb 26, 2001

One more comment regarding legalities: if the occasion should present itself where I have to defend myself with a knife, I hope I am carrying my Spyderco "Delica" instead of my Acme Knife "Badass Rambo-Model Combat Intimidator". Because, when you go to trial (and you will), the prosecuting attorney will JUMP on the "name" of the second knife to "prove" that you were "looking" for a fight and his/her defendant was simply unlucky enough to meet up with a troublemaker like you. A maker with some foresight and marketing savvy, such as CRKT or MT, should produce a big, quality folder and register the name for it as "The Gentle Giant Apple Peeler". I would buy several.

"Avoid the scare. Be aware."

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Holger
:c{{{<

Charles Gallo · Feb 26, 2001

Originally posted by sgtmike88:
<snip>I got stupid in my haste to get my business done. I had forgotten school's out for the week, so there would be a prevalence of kids and gangbangers at the mall. I didn't pay my usual amount of attention to the bystanders as I approached the ATM.

<snip>

Sgtmike,
First I'm glad your OK.

The mistake? (and as you said, you know it, I'm just point it out to others)

You got caught in "Condition White" - Poor situational awareness

Just glad it worked out OK

FullerH · Feb 26, 2001

Sgtmike88, if you are referring to me, to where could I retreat when I am in an elevator and the punks control the door and the "Emergency Stop" switch? They had jumped on just as the doors closed, not giving me the chance to step off, which I most assuredly would have done, had I had the chance. Further, while I was armed, I am in no shape to fight it out with two young, strong men in their twenties or late teens. I am, as I said, middlle-aged, overwieght and very arthritic, walking with a cane. So, I was an obvious target, until the Police appeared. The only legal problem was one that ai learned about later, that DC has a 3" blade limit and the POlice has a 4+" blade. That is one of the reasons that I carry knives with a blade no more than 3" in town these days.

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Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller

Hoodoo · Feb 26, 2001

Para thanks for clarifying. sgtmike, I really didn't have you in mind at all when I made my post. Sorry if you took it personally. It was just meant as a general statement. Over the years I've met lots of guys who think it's cool to flash a weapon. I saw this a lot when I was in the service. But I never meant to imply that you were one of them.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM

sgtmike88 · Feb 26, 2001

Hugh, I was not referring to you. Para asked me to post that clip - it was a response to a question he had asked me in a private email. We just wanted to "share the wealth." Everyone has different abilities, capabilities, and in some cases, disabilities - which are referred to in legal terms as a portion of the totality of the circumstances. The "totality of the circumstances" has to be considered in every instance where a forceful response may be necessary, in order to determine the appropriate amount of force to use.

HooDoo - Sorry for the mixup.

Mike

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.