SKS question...(yes, another gun thread!:)

From, The Rifle Book, Jack OConnor, 1949

Page 76- 77


"Up until the late 1920's all rifle primers contained potassium chlorate, a substance akin to modern table salt." " this tendance to rust was particularly pronounced in rifles of small bore capacity.." 'almost impossible to prevent this rust and usually a barrel was ruined in a few hundred rounds. For a long time the 'acid left by smokeless powder' recieved the blame. When it was discovered that the potassium chlorate was the villian, primers were evolved which did away with that ingredient and which were 'rustless'.
The first successful non corrosive mixture was Remington Kleanbore,"...." with a few exceptions, all centerfire cartridges are loaded with primers of this type today (nonmercuric)

1949


munk
 
Yeah I forgotten to mention : if you are using russian 7,62 surpluss army munition in any kind of weapon, clean your gun after shooting, since its highly corrosive. Thats what I v been tought in army too.
We didnt have SKS, we have Czech vz.58 attack rifle, which is superrior to Kalashnikhov and has different internall structure, but we have been supposed to know them.
 
Munk

Any suggestions on cleaning them out? I just clean the bore and spray the bolt and breech with Rem Oil several times.
 
70 years ago they were still using soap and water, such was the fear. Any decent cleaning agent, like Hoppes number 9, followed by dry patches and then a light coating of oil. Even the AK I left unattended was OK- it had just these tiny pin pricks of corrosion, unsightly, but not a catastrophy.

I think the initial Russian import ammo may have had some left over corrosive primers, but the current stuff is labled non corrosive. The corrosive stuff I have is left over Chinese.

It's funny how we take modern weapons and materials for granted. We really have it good. And we're lucky we don't have to inhale all that mercury!!


munk
 
Check out this recipe for corrosive primers from E.C. Crossman's "Book of the Springfield"
Fulminate of mercury 60%
Potassium Chloride 22%
Ground glass 16%
Mealed powder 2%


this was the 30/40 Krag's primer mixture in the 1890's




munk
 
munk said:
70 years ago they were still using soap and water, such was the fear. Any decent cleaning agent, like Hoppes number 9, followed by dry patches and then a light coating of oil.

munk
Click to expand...

That's what I figured but wasn't sure.
 
You're fine- you've done good. This fear of corrosive primers is so prevalent that my old man, who grew up with corrosive primers, thought his 22 was ruined the day I returned it to his closet uncleaned. I paid for that-I assure you! But his rifle was fine, and I have it today.


munk
 
I don't know if my opinion is of any value or not since I'm new to the SKS, but I've had a firearm in my hands since I was 4-5 years old and now I'm in my 40's.

I have bought 3 Yugo SKS M59's in the past month ,the M59 is the Yugo original design (or copy) of the Russain SKS, and made on Russian tooling, that DOES NOT have the gernade launcher on them.

They do not have chrome lined barrels, but the ones I have are as close to tack drivers as an SKS can get. I do not see any problem with no chrome lining and have rifles and pistols that I have had most of my life that do not have chrome lining and have many many thousands of rounds through them and are still very accurate and no noticeable wear.

I had a small problem with my first Yugo M59 which was easily fixed with some very minor stoning and no problems since with any of the three I have and I honestly don't think anyone else will with any Yugo M59's. I believe the only problems have been with the M59/66's that have the grenade launchers.

Remember these rifles were made to shoot the steel jacketed commie ammo and the ones I have do this really well. If your really worried about shooting steel jacketed ammo in a non-chrome lined barrel, Wolf does make a copper jacketed round that doesn't cost much more than the steel. It is in the Wolf yellow and black box as opposed to the Wolf black box.

Heck they only cost about $120.00 to $150.00, buy two and when or if ever you wear one out, many years from now, just pull out the other one.

Just my thoughts, thanks for listening.....................
 
I've heard recommendations for Windex as well, Spectre. Never tried it - I've got a few cans of the old nasty GI bore cleaner kicking around that seem to work.

Hot water, with or without soap, always works. Make sure that the water's nice and hot so that it evaporates more quickly.

Next time I shoot corrosive, I'm going to try hot water with some Ballistol mixed in. The residual Ballistol ought to provide some protection against flash rust during the drying process.

Munk, the story of America's phasing out of corrosive primers is a long and complicated tale; the military had an ongoing love-hate relationship with them. "Hatcher's Notebook," I believe, has a good section on this. Long story short, the civilians got 'em first by several decades.

I've read that corrosive primers were (and possibly still are) more tolerant of improper storage and age than noncorrosive ones are. My own experiences support this. A chemist might be able to explain why - I certainly can't.

Namaarie, if you have Usenet access, rec.guns is a pretty good place for questions as well.
 
The last of the military primers to be corrosive were used in WWll according to Jack OConnor. As I've quoted extensively today on this subject, I'm not going to do so again. By the 1960's, when I first questioned your statement that small bore neccesitated chrome line bores and chambers, the military did not have corrosive primers, and had not for several decades.
The same people making primers for commericial use made primers for the military.

Lyman themselves called me at home this afternoon to say by 1960 all corrosive primers were gone.

Oh alright, one more quote. The frankford Arsenal number 70 was the most popular primer, used by handloaders into the 1930s. Winchester figured it out and made their own. It contained Potassium chloride, and was corrosive. "It is uniform, efficient, stable. It was used for most American Small arms ammunition during World War ll, the exception being the M1 Carbine which was loaded with a non-corrosive primer. Anyone who uses war time ammunition should not forget this" Jack OConnor, 1961, Rifles and Shotguns. We should note he was speaking of WWll ammo.

So it would appear the commercial market got non corrosive primers before the military. However, these primers were gone before the M16 was an issue.


munk
 
What Carman said about the SKS does not surprise me. If you order a varmint AR 16, it usually does not come chrome lined as this hinders the best accuracy. I had a Norinco which was very fine, accurate, and not chrome lined.

I thought if you intended to burn up cases of ammo chrome lining would be best. But it is true that for a little over a hundred bucks, you could get another SKS and keep shooting.



munk
 
Munk, I'm not sure that we're in disagreement here. I think that we may be following diverging lines of thought however.

I did not mean to imply that EITHER smaller calibers NOR corrosive primers alone forced a shift to lined bores for everyone; some militaries (such as the US) adopted it primarily for rust prevention, while others adopted them much later, long after corrosive primers were a fading memory but the downard shift in bore diameter was new. If we were to ask any given organization why they made the change, they'd probably say it was for extended barrel life. If we were to press them for specifics, I'd bet that they'd give one of the two reasons I listed above.

In short: we can only blame the primers or the calibers specifically on a case-by-case basis, but overall, these were probably the two main reasons. While I've never seen it mentioned in print, I would hazard a guess that overenthusiastic cleaning by operators with steel cleaning rods probably played a part as well.

1960 sounds like a good date. I won't argue that. The changeover occurred during the '50's to the best of my knowledge and should've been completed by then. Nor will I debate the .30 Carbine ammo - that was my understanding as well.

As for the rest...I'm not sure where you're going with this. I think that we may be misunderstanding one another.
 
Satori said:
I've heard recommendations for Windex as well, Spectre. Never tried it - I've got a few cans of the old nasty GI bore cleaner kicking around that seem to work.
Click to expand...


My old stuff? You'd better give it back! :mad:


Hollow...windex does a fine job, followed by Hoppes...never a problem, and as munk said...usually no more than minor staining even left unattended.

.
 
An aqueous solution is needed to neutralize the salts, and Windex is one such solution. Hoppe's, from past memory, is not.

Windex followed by Hoppe's should take care of it, no sweat.

I'd just rather tell you to take an extra step and be safe rather than omitting it and finding some damage later.
 
We're cool, Sat.

I didn't know that about windex.
Does it contain Amonia?



munk
 
namaarie- You can't go wrong with an SKS of any flavor. The Yugo with the grenade launcher is on the heavy side, though. Also, the 59/66 has an adjustable gas system. goes with the grenade launching feature. With blanks, it will launch a tennis ball nicely. :footinmou Any will serve you well.

IIRC- 1949 to late 1950 Soviet didn't have the chrome lined bores.

http://www.simonov.net/ has a bunch of info you didn't want to know, but will read anyway just so you know.

Try SOG. They have the 59/66 from 99.95.

http://www.southernohiogun.com/surplusrifles.html

You just have to have an FFL willing to do the transfer.

Brian
 
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