"Slicers" vs "Hard Use" knives

I'm primarily interested in cutting ability, and therefore choose knives that are optimized for the task. For me, this means a thin blade with a full flat grind or a high hollow grind.
 
Define "hard use".

It seems many people equate "hard use" with thicker blades. Fair enough.

I would say I prefer knives that slice well, and this usually means blades less than 1/8 inch or so in thickness.

For example, I have not been too impressed with the 755 MPR in my daily tasks - too short and too thick of a blade. Breaking down a cardboard box was not as easy as it should have been.

However, I have found I like the 741 Onslaught for daily carry, but I am mindfull of that blades thinness and that big hole (the blade sure does flex a bit when cutting multilayer cardboard).
 
Slicing over nuclear toughness for me. :D That isn't to say that I don't have some heavy duty stronger folders and fixed blades, but for my day-to-day tasks, the more efficient slicers serve my purposes better.

- Mark
 
Ankerson said:
...If they ever bring out a tough one then maybe.
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Try out the SOG Powerassist tool. I carry one in my truck and one in my BOB. I've put them through quite a lot and they seem to hold up fine.

Back to the OP's theme, I think that "hard-use" should be a pretty extreme term for pretty extreme usage. If I had to cut and pry someone out of a burning vehicle, or punch my way through a window - that would be "hard-use" to me. Hence my opinion of the XM-18 as the right tool for that task. For the other 99.9% of my life, a sturdy slicer like the one's mentioned above is adequate. So I get the best slicers I can afford :)

ala today's carry......
 
I use a mix of both. The Manix2 is a hard use folder with a 1/8"(3mm) thick blade. I slice cardboard all day long with it, of course it helps to maintain an extremely sharp 30deg inclusive edge.

manix154.jpg
 
I have no use for the very heavy, over built non slicing tanks that have gotten popular in recent times. You can thin the edge, but the whole blade is often needed to cut through the object. So thinning only the edge won't help much in those case's.

My 1/8" sebenza's, spyderco's, etc.. in this range are very tough, and also slice well.
My thinner slip joints are my best slicers, and I always have one of those on me as well.

I seldom need a thick fixed blade either, and go with my 1/8" blades there also... most of the time.




I did work as a meatcutter most of my life, and had a game processing buisness for many years, so that my be why I'm a bit partial to a regular or thin blade.
Plus, my Dad and unckle's(all deceased) used to make fun of my THICK 1/8" knives,lol. They were all farmers and hunters, and needed something every day in there life that would slice well.
 
A thick one like the SmF does not slice nearly as well as a thinner one, say the Military, especially when cutting through materials which will drag at the spine (cardboard being a good example).
When chopping through small (finger size) branches however, both seem to do equally well.:thumbup:
It all depends on what you're cutting; match the tool to the task as much as possible.:)
If I were strong enough, I'd carry a toolbox rather than a single pocket-knife.:D
 
I like a slicer for my EDC, Sebenza, Buck Mayo's. But it sure is fun to take my Dogfather out and beat up things with it every now and then.
 
Ankerson, nice video. Never got your totenchip card did you. That is the card the boyscouts give you upon completion of their knife carry, use and safety class to become "certified" by the boy scouts to carry or at least it was when I was in, way back.

That video is text book for illustrating how not use a knife from a safety perspective I think you pulled the blade back towards various parts of your anatomy too many times to count. Classic.
 
The umnumzaan is overbuilt, but I think most people that have one and have used it know it's a great slicer. I noticed very little difference between it and my SnG in actual use. They both cut very well and are more convienient to use than a slipjoint.
 
MikeC said:
Ankerson, nice video. Never got your totenchip card did you. That is the card the boyscouts give you upon completion of their knife carry, use and safety class to become "certified" by the boy scouts to carry or at least it was when I was in, way back.

That video is text book for illustrating how not use a knife from a safety perspective I think you pulled the blade back towards various parts of your anatomy too many times to count. Classic.
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http://www.scoutingbsa.org/programs/awards/bsa_non_rank_awards/Totin_chip.html

Though the spelling is debatable, you are correct. Some troops still mandate a valid card in order to carry a knife (as well as some other tools). For good reason too!
 
MikeC said:
Ankerson, nice video. Never got your totenchip card did you. That is the card the boyscouts give you upon completion of their knife carry, use and safety class to become "certified" by the boy scouts to carry or at least it was when I was in, way back.

That video is text book for illustrating how not use a knife from a safety perspective I think you pulled the blade back towards various parts of your anatomy too many times to count. Classic.
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Never was in the Boy Scouts.... Grew up out in the Country Hunting and Fishing, Camping and Hiking;)

I did spend 4 years with the Big Boys though..... The USMC. :D

However I have been using knives for nearly 40 years and can count on one hand how many times I have cut myself. ;)

After cutting miles of cardboard over the years with razor and pocket knives I have cut myself....... Count it now...... ZERO times..
 
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I'm still not sure what "hard use" means in the context of folders. I'm sure it means something. I just don't know what it is.

I own an array of what other folks call hard use knives - SNG, ZT0300, etc. but those suckers rarely get carried. They just take more effort to use, IMO.

I get the notion of having a full handle the fills the hand, and a sturdy lock. But what I am really after in a folder is the ability to cut things, and so-called slicers do that better than hard use knives.

I just cut open 50 bags of mulch to spread around the house. Used a Delica PE, which zipped right through the bags as you would expect.

Somebody give me an example of a task requiring a hard use knife; something where you would want a Strider or ZT0300 over a Military or Spyderco GB. I understand that its easier to dig a hole in the ground with a Strider, but what cutting tasks do you guys believe requires a hard use knife.

thx
 
powernoodle said:
I just cut open 50 bags of mulch to spread around the house. Used a Delica PE, which zipped right through the bags as you would expect.
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I just did the same thing with my Cold Steel Black Rhino a week ago.

And cut open 40 bales of Pine Straw with my Cold Steel Voyager.

powernoodle said:
Somebody give me an example of a task requiring a hard use knife; something where you would want a Strider or ZT0300 over a Military or Spyderco GB. I understand that its easier to dig a hole in the ground with a Strider, but what cutting tasks do you guys believe requires a hard use knife.

thx
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You just aren't going to do any prying with a Military, it just won't happen without snapping the blade, it's just too thin and pointy to take it.

Hard use to me is being able to do a lot of the tasks that a fixed blade would be used for and not fall apart or loosen up. There aren't many folders on the market that can do that.

So yeah one you can beat on when needed and pry with if you need to and still count on it to work.

To me that would be a knife that I don't have to think that hey I could break this if I do that with it.
 
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Well, in my opinion, good cutter and good slicer are a bit different things. Thick "heavy duty" can cut very good, but at the same time not be a good slicer. How often the whole blade profile comes into play as opposed to mostly just the edge, depends of the specific task.

I like both my "slicers" and "heavy duty" knives, but generally go for tougher knives. I should add, that I also always carry my Gerber EAB with a utility razor blade regardless of what other knife is in my pocket. After a lot of use I found that for me this utility blade works better than "slicers", when dealing with cardboard and such. So having this cardboard cutter, I usually go for tough knife. What overbuilt "heavy duty" is good for? Just prying and generally knife abuse. I try to avoid abuse as much as possible, but I like to have an option, and I have used this option in the past. I will not carry a prybar, because having it on me all the time "just in case", seems to me more crazy than cutting transparent slices of tomato using a "heavy duty" knife. Speaking of which... For food related tasks, I'd rather use my kitchen knives. I usually have a better slicer option than my folding slicer when dealing with food. Utility blade takes care of cardboard and is maintenance free. So what left are usually just tasks that require a good edge.
I should say that I consider my Strider PT a hard use knife and it is only 1/8" thick. It cuts very well, and I don't see much difference in "slicing performance" when compared to my small Sebenza that is also 1/8" thick. I also think that Sebenza is quite tough and not as good of a slicer as some full flat ground Spydercos for example.
 
Ankerson said:
Not if you reprofile the edge or get the hollow ground model. ;)

A cheap fixed blade wouldn't last 15 seconds under hard use, I know because I have broken a ton of knives over the years, some cheap and others not so cheap. ;)

Most of the time it's better to have a thicker blade because you can't add more metal to a thin blade for heavy jobs, but you can thin out the edge on a thicker blade for easier tasks.

If one is doing stuff in the kitchen then they need a kitchen knife. ;)
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I agree that a hollow grind on a thick blade will allow for easy slicing.

But you're saying that a thick blade with a re-profiled fine edge will cut just as well as a thin blade with an equally fine edge? I have to disagree with you here. Slicing cheese is the perfect test for this because it provides so much friction. Try slicing cheese with a Delica 4 and a Tenacious for example. You can put a very fine edge on both of them but because the Delica doesn't start it's grind until halfway down the blade, it encounters much more resistance than the Tenacious, which is FFG and allows for a narrow approach to the relief edge.

My opinion:
A thick blade will only be a good slicer (in the cheese example) if it:
1. Is hollow ground
or 2. Is very tall (edge to spine)
 
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