Small bore/gauge shotguns

There is also the Savage in 20 Gauge, with a .22LR, Mag or .223 underneath.
http://www.savagearms.com/24f20.htm
While the .22 is versatile, cehap and should do what you need, having the extra oopmh of the .223 or WMR might add a little more versatility at the expense of possible over-power and expense..

I like the Airforce combo, too, though.
 
The .410 is a great little shotgun.
Two things tho...you have to be close. They wont reach out there like the larger bores and their load is smaller so you have to be accurate. With the 12 and even the 20 if you are close you still had meat in the pot. With the 410 if you wern't accurate you went hungry.

Also if you put slugs in a 410 they are almost as powerful as a .357 pistol.
 
For pest control I'd probably opt for a .22LR or maybe short in a more populated area. Don't they make shotshells for 22's now?
 
No they don't, not sure if that's SUCH a bad thing after-all as I suspect that 95% of the stock is horrendous;) and small businesses wiped out in the process too:eek: but, mind you, wish I COULD get my hands on that pilot's survival gun or some 410:cool: lot more bang than this poxy air-rifle I have:grumpy:
 
willgoy said:
I have little experience with shotguns (apart from nearly being dislocated by an old 12 bore when a teenager, the KICK..) I would like to get a 20 bore pump action shotgun, what would you suggest and why? I've heard good reports on Browning 20 ga but what about others? What should I be aware of,drawbacks etc? Small pest control is the task. (Snakes, rats, hares, mink etc)
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Development in recent years in the design of the gun and loads have made shotguns much more shooter friendly. 12 guage is not a hard gun to shoot with a bit of practice, even for small framed people. I personally shoot a semi auto called the Beretta 3901 primarily for recreational shooting. If I didn't mind hurting the finish, it is indeed a great duck gun. Shoot the Beretta XTrema 2 and you will understand what low recoil is all about. I personally find the Beretta gas operation to be the best of all production guns. For all around skeet and trap shooting, the Krieghoff K-80 is the undisputed champion. It is shame my car is only worth about 1/7th of the Krieghoff I like. On a good note, the Beretta 391 can be had for about 500-750 USD used.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6750458630308006678

This video shows how the gas operated Xtrema 2 reduces recoil to nothing.

Additionally, I am sure guys are famaliar with the Remington 870...this is a pump gun which is really the standard in which all others are measured. It is reliable and inexpensive. I do not shoot Mossberg but guys claim they make excellent field guns. They undoubtedly make amazing home defense guns.

I recommend 12 gauge because it is flexible, readily available, and inexpensive. 410 is a difficult gun to shoot recreationally, hard to find in some areas, and exceptionally expensive as far as shotgun loads go. 16 gauge is also very pricey. If you want to go to 20 just because of recoil, I would shoot a few modern 12 gauges (and be sure someone who has done it before shows you where to line the gun up!) before having to worry about that.
 
I like the idea of the gas operated semi-automatic, but they are kind of pricey. I've shot lots of different shotguns and the semi-autos do have the least recoil.

If you want a pump, I think I'd go with the Remington over the Ithaca or the Winchester. The Ithaca in particular is lighter, so feels like it kicks a little more. I like the feel of the Remington over both of the other two anyway. Personal preference I guess. I haven't priced them for awhile, but years ago, the Winchester was the cheapest.

You didn't mention what you intended to do with the gun, but if you're just getting started, and you intend to hunt a variety of bird and game then I'd urge you to get the 12 guage because you are going to miss, and the 12 guage will give you a better chance at bringing home the bacon. :D I'd buy one with a variable choke system or if you have to choose one choke, I'd go full choke for the extra range. The only guys I've hunted with that used 20's consistently were generally bird hunters that were MUCH better with a shotgun than I ever was. There are some super pricey over/unders out there in 20 and 28 guage ..

If the gun is about self defense in the house, then based on what you said about the recoil, I'd go with a 20 guage pump. I'd stay away from the .410 in either case. It will leave you frustrated on a hunt (less range, much smaller pattern, less than half the shot of a 12 guage).

In any case good luck. If I could only have 1 gun in a survival setting for defense and hunting, I think I'd make it a shotgun due to the variety of shot size (and slugs) that you can put through it. I've killed birds as small as dove all the way up to mammals as large as deer with a 12 guage.

Best,
Razz
 
Much good advice, thank you. Can I persuade somebody to smuggle a pilot's survival gun for me to the EU......

Different theme but so...Radioshack won't post to the EU on foreign credit cards or even on paypal (how shite is THat?) I really want to get one of those mini microscopes to examine blade edges,how?? Would a trustworthy moderator such as Cougar let me post him the CASH in US dollars and then send one on to me?
 
I do not know what the laws are where you live to get a shotgun, but I would think there are a few places where you can shoot them before you buy. Here most gunners are pretty nice and willing to help a sincere newbie try out a few. If you were here, between me and a few others close by I could have 20 different shotguns for you to try in a few phone calls. I would think that perhaps you might have the same luck there as well. Try to find any local shooting clubs, see if you can find out if they have welcome days or new shooter events. See what you like,

I have tried some of the baikal and stoeger's and find them to be satisfactory if a bit clubby, or unwieldy. I do not know what other options you have, an auto-loading shotgun is a bit softer on the shoulder than a pump or a double, but not a whole lot. If you are of standard size, a 12 gauge is not that hard to take, I have an 18 year old daughter who shoot's trap league with a 12 gauge. She manages just fine.

With different loads, a 12 might work fine, also if you buy a break action gun, you can add sub gauge liners. http://www.paxtonarms.com/Briley.htm Here you can get one gun and add other gauges for other uses.

Let us know if you ned further help, if you get to a gun shop and try some different guns, come back and tell us what you find.
 
willgoy said:
Anybody got experiences of cheap shotguns like Baikal, Stöger or Turkish guns? Buying guns outside the US is none too easy, you have such a vast arsenal of excellent and reasonably priced guns, if only...:rolleyes:
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The Baikal is actually a great shotgun. It's not exatly a Purdey, but it's cheap and simple. Like an AK 47 it works in the nastiest cold (Siberia) and thickest dirt. If you are in for a combination gun you are actually much better off in Europe. Good ones are expensive, but they are probably even more expensive in the US. In this country you get lots of high end doubles, that cost probably more than a house, but nothing really affordable for us commoners.

The low end of the high end ones in Europe are Merkels, but they are still pricey for someone used to US prices. For affordable European combination guns check out Brunner (Czech). They have one model, I think it's a 500, which actually has an over/under shotgun and rifle barrel with a replacement double shotgun barrel for less than a grand.
 
With all the posts recomending auto's and pump actions, I just wondered if they are even leagel in the U.K.?

I was under the impression that gun ownership there was so strict, that you had to move heaven and earth just to get a single or double barrel shotgun.

So, just what can you own in merry old England these days?:confused:
 
Remington 870s are great. If you want a smaller frame shotgun you can go with the Mossberg 500e .410. Their 20 guage may be on the smaller frame also.

If recoil is a problem look for a Remington 1187 in 20 guage. A coworker uses his exclusively for small game up to pheasant.

If you are looking for a combo gun. Savage model 24s are available in almost any rifle over any shotgun round. Mine is a .22mag over .410. Love it.

I really like my Mossberg 500e .410 also. For 12 guage I shoot a LH Remington 870 Express Magnum (the economy model.) I also have a Winchester model 12 in 16 guage but I rarely shoot it anymore as it points so differently from my 870 and 500.

Something to consider: the safety on a Remington is at the front of the trigger guard and gets pressed from side to side. The safety on a Mossberg is on the tang and is thumb operated. To me that is a big difference and I prefer the tang mounted safety as I'm left handed. I have to be really careful loaning out my 870 as the safety is opposite to what all the RHers are used too.
 
I've been shooting 12ga since I was about 12 or 14 years old. And ever since I switched to gas guns around 16 the recoil has been anything but bothersome (rem. 11-87 premier lc). I really like that gun, has the light contour barrel and the scroll work on the receiver; plus flawless functioning, I love that gun.
 
jackknife said:
With all the posts recomending auto's and pump actions, I just wondered if they are even leagel in the U.K.?

I was under the impression that gun ownership there was so strict, that you had to move heaven and earth just to get a single or double barrel shotgun.

So, just what can you own in merry old England these days?:confused:
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No he's not in the UK but he does know a bit about it:

Private handguns are completely outlawed in England&Wales (not sure about Scotland)

Rifle ownership is restricted to professionals (pest controllers,police,park wardens and others)no auto or semi-auto.Calibre restrictions too.

Shotguns can be owned by most people IF they undergo training(good idea)but pump action is I believe restricted in terms of round capacity.Also there is a minimum length for shotguns so short barrels are a no no. Gas assisted auto etc can be used by sportsmen. All in all it's a difficult business getting a gun in the UK, unless of course you want an underground gun:D

Even antique guns,deactivated,ex war trophies or replicas are strictly controlled.The penalties for illegal firearm possession are severe the more so if they are carried in public.

Fancy that America?;)
 
Here's an update to what I wrote on UK gun laws.

In Scotland, which of course has a different legal system from England&Wales a politician in the SNP- Scottish National Party that wants independence from the union- has called for a law totally banning AIRGUNS:eek:

Could this SNP be in a fact a sinister global force Sheeple National Party (coming soon to a home near yours):barf:

And before any over sensitive bigot gets on their high-horse accusing me of political distortion/racism, my paternal grandmother was 100% Scottish, or is that Scotch:D
 
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