Small broad axes/hatchets

[Agent_H]

Thank you,Ernest.
I oft

Jake, I would wager that you could fashion such an axe if you took to it.

 

[jake pogg]

Thanks,Ernest.
I suppose it's logical that their formula,even initially,was based on the slitted/drifted eye.The sign of the times,well into mechanical hammer era.

Here's another neat relative of theirs,a Norsk answer to Hjartum,in incomparable in neatness and exactitude study by Jim Austin...https://forgedaxes.com/blog/

This one is traditional enough to have retained the older,folded eye pattern(one can see Whence that poll shape in Hjartum ones and others like it).
And similar thin,long,elegant blade...

What beautiful axes these all are...

Jake, I would wager that you could fashion such an axe if you took to it.

Thank you,Agent_H,for the vote of confidence.It's kind of you,but in practical terms...Yes,but how many tries would it take?
Remember,JA's rule of thumb is 20...for Me,add a few...

Speaking of which,i keep meaning to write something expressing my regrets for stalling in regards to our early American axe series...

Normally(though what's ever been "normal" around here......,this would be a beginning of my fall forging session.
But this year i'm Way too far behind.Still fishing(got done with checking the net at 3pm today...
And my sweetheart comes for a visit in a week...The way i forge,disappearing into the forge and emerging 120 hours later speechless with exhaustion will not be welcome...(i tried before).

It pains me to think that i may miss out on any forge-time till after January,cos my nail-pounding ordeal will probably commence after her visit..

I still have a handful of unfinished forgings that i'd have loved to at least finish,but even that is in question(and may be ill-advised anyway,they all being trial-runs);but i did kinda look forward to finishing them and shooting them out to at least a few of you guys...And now i think my hopes were dashed...

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Who knows if/when a transition from wrapped to drifted eye, (correct my jargon when I get it wrong please), might have occurred. The Hjärtum forge never operated solo so even back in 1880s the drifted eye construction was possible I guess, maybe even cutting-edge innovative and progressive for the times.

edited to update:
After having a look at an axe I have by J. Jonsson made at the site of the original forge it looks to me that even at this point the eye was drifted.

This forge's process included a mechanical hammer used at least in the time the last smid to drift the eye from a single billet, hammer out the cheek, split it open, and insert the high carbon content edge steel, a relatively simple construction and it included significant grinding. This is part of why the efforts at reproduction never do quite measure up. You've got either the smids having a go at it today who are married heavily to this straight from the hammer surface "authenticity" and/or counterproductively, in our terms you know, high-tech grinding, or the machine fabrication of the highly commercial forges, what the ones here at the forum disparage as boutique.

In other words not only was the operation of the Hjärtum forge unique but they were pumping out axes like the old Korean surfs turned out tea cups, and you know what's become of those cups. If not, you'll have to look it up because this is not the place for going into these things at all so you'll forgive me for ending my accounting at this point.

 

[thunderstick]

This is quite an educational thread for me. Posing a question...
What are the basic differences in design and application between a Scandinavian double bevel framing hatchet and the typical American style half-hatchet such as this one?

 

[jake pogg]

This is quite an educational thread for me. Posing a question...
What are the basic differences in design and application between a Scandinavian double bevel framing hatchet and the typical American style half-hatchet such as this one?

Right on,likewise,thanks to many folks here i'm learning constantly.

Afraid that i'm not sure what you mean by "Scandinavian double bevel framing hatchet"...
in the Modern sense of framing they do about the same as here;or do you mean those particular Timber-framing/log-work techniques such as illustrated in Sagastua et c.?

IF so,and you mean a Laftebiler type tools and their less radical boatbuilder's and bench axes such as Ernest posted,the main difference would be the Thinness of the blade...

If you're contemplating doing some of that sort of work i'm fairly sure an old Vaughan or the like can be made to serve...

Laftebiler in particular are also characteristically poll-less,for two reasons:They don't require any extra mass being so huge in the blade anyhoo,And,much(as in very large %) of the time they're pushed with your palm bearing on the poll,for controlled paring-type action.

Thus,a wide-bladed slick would come closer to that kind of action...(slicks do get rather wide too,you know...5" is not unheard of...).

To tell you the truth,nowadays in many instances builders accomplish Norwegian scribe using a chansaw+angle-grinder...
(please disregard the above if i misunderstood your question).

 

[thunderstick]

I meant for a timber framing type of project ... are there were any advantages to a Laftebiler design vs an American half hatchet or broad hatchet?

 

[jake pogg]

Simple answer-Och Ja(see,i even speak Norsk
(otherwise they woulda forged an American half-hatchet)

When it comes to planing down a large,parabolic flat on softwood log,with no choice of placement,you need all the help you can get(to do it with no jagged grain-rises).

BUT,in Practical terms(since this detail has migrated into other log-building styles such as "Canadian" scribe),as i said above there's other ways;and even over there i'd bet very few Bila actually at worksites....

 

[Ernest DuBois]

I meant for a timber framing type of project ... are there were any advantages to a Laftebiler design vs an American half hatchet or broad hatchet?

With such a half hatchet as you picture you could shape your draw bore pegs and pound them in maybe some final trimming work during assembly but what work do you see yourself doing? In the past I have done a timber frame starting from round logs through to standing frame with a variety of joinery exclusively with axes but no one axe would do it all and each one had its place.

 

[Square_peg]

reasons:They don't require any extra mass being so huge in the blade anyhoo,And,much ..... of the time they're pushed with your palm bearing on the poll,for controlled paring-type action.

Thus,a wide-bladed slick would come closer to that kind of action...(slicks do get rather wide too,you know...5" is not unheard of...).

When it comes to planing down a large,parabolic flat on softwood log,with no choice of placement,you need all the help you can get(to do it with no jagged grain-rises).

These 2 statements are spot on.

The cleaning up of a tenon is best performed with the precision of a pushed tool rather that an impact tool. Some of these hatchets can serve as both.

The width of the tool might be decided by the physical force necessary to shear the wood and manage those grain rises. A narrower width concentrates your force while a wider tool makes it easier to set your plane or align you tool to the desired plane. A wide tool also allows you to cut diagonally across the surface producing a shearing action. This is very helpful when dealing with the grain rises as this motion is less likely to lift grains from the surface.

A hatchet is better for achieving that diagonal cutting action as it can be pulled along with one hand while the other applies the forward force. The Laftebiler with it's long bit can get the pushing hand back out of the way and provides a handle for pulling it along. I wish I had one. I've thought of forging some type of 2-handled slick to achieve this, with one handle aligned straight back into the dominate hand and the other skewed 45 degrees toward the non-dominant hand. Such a skewed handle could provide either push or pull as needed.

 

[Hairy Clipper]

Hello Moin and welcome to the forum!

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Maybe somebody came up already 300 years ago with an idea similar to yours Square_Peg.

https://beeldbank.zaanschemolen.nl/beelden/?mode=gallery&view=horizontal&q=snik&rows=1&page=1

Something I read recently gives some perspective. The timber framers joints are loose fitting, the furniture maker's joints take pressure to fit together and the wagon wheel makers joints take hammering to fit. I realize this is not universal, still, Japanese timber construction aside, it is basically the case in places with a well developed timber framing tradition. In that light a good and suitable axe should in principle be adequate to the task as it is in general, complex scarf joints being one of the notable exceptions. I'm glade it has not been left to that because there are some great tools that have been developed within this trade; the besaiguë the strossaxt and what I already posted up and which is so dear to my heart being unique to the Dutch scene the snik and of course we all are familiar with the slick the anglo version of these. But concerning this pairing action the geometry involved makes so much difference and it's where I am somewhat confused by Jakes description of a parabolic flat. A parabolic flat?
So long as the edge in profile of your carpentry axe is straight or with only a slight arch and heel and toe are prominent and accessible and there is a reasonable bevel it makes an excellent pairing tool. Only when you get a lot of curves involved in this geometry does it become useless more or less. It's why I find my Hults or Billnäs axes as they are pretty inadequate for joinery work.

 

[jake pogg]

it's where I am somewhat confused by Jakes description of a parabolic flat. A parabolic flat?

Sorry,Ernest,here's what i meant-the flats,so characteristic of Scandinavian work,have migrated into N.American log-building techniques.
Although originally nearly perfectly flat,in reality(and especially on cruder/larger/Round log work)they're often cupped slightly.
Here's a quick example for strictly visual reference:https://bclogschool.com/video-gallery/#video-gallery-2

(for some odd reason those are referred to as "scarfs",among builders).

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Ok, I don't really like conflating the two, stacked construction and framing.

 

[jake pogg]

Well...they started out being used together,in combination...(in Scandihoovian tradition,no?...Stave constr. and some other styles are in effect framing,log-filled...).

All that speaking Very loosely,the point being that the tool kit was fairly ubiquitous for both...

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Likely there is some overlap, I don't know, though I don't think the in-fill determines what constitutes the distinction. In post and beam construction the in-fill can be logs, planks, brick, wattle en daub even woven straw as they did it here in Drenthe. But maybe it's true, stave might not fall into our nice categorizations. Doesn't mean it's not neat. And that one from the first video in this series, what was that mongrel of a construction? A post and beam on top of a stacked mud sill or something? Very interesting. Still, I cannot wrap my mind around the two concepts all in one, simple as that mind is.

 

[thunderstick]

With such a half hatchet as you picture you could shape your draw bore pegs and pound them in maybe some final trimming work during assembly but what work do you see yourself doing? In the past I have done a timber frame starting from round logs through to standing frame with a variety of joinery exclusively with axes but no one axe would do it all and each one had its place.

I'm not focused on any type of work for the broad axe. I brought mine here as a starter topic and to discuss a *broad perspective* of broad axe usages. Timber framing is an interest of mine though I don't have much experience with it recently. In my early carpentry years I helped timber frame an exotic kitchen addition on a wealthy person's house. I worked with an old craftsmen who kept bringing in more specialty hand tools from home as the project progressed. He was not much of a verbal instructor but you could learn a lot by observing how he used his tools. Did I mention they all were very sharp and in good condition! He had a huge chisel that he used as a fitment plane on joints very similar to how the Scandi's use their broad axe to shave and fit in timber framing.

I'm in construction management for large commercial projects now, but my hands have never lost their love of tools around home or helping someone else in their projects or in just gaining more craft knowledge.

I enjoy all kinds of history and that includes crafting with hand tools.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Some handy-work of the hand axe to include shaping the staves and forming the decorative wedge of the through tenon.

 

[jake pogg]

I Really like those kind of wedges...Excellent way of securing wooden members,All kinds of potential for drawing things tight,and aligning,and all kinds of other good things...
Is that the structure you said was all axe,round-to-structure?
Wonderful.
Those plaited withes(sp.?),will they be mudded,or filled with ought else,or they serve to divide the space as is?

 

[Ernest DuBois]

There is a story behind the particular form of the wedge, which doesn't come from any timber framing tradition I know of but is modeled on the wedge of a plane used to secure the plane iron. In a timber frame the joint would be secured with a simple tapered wedge typically. Anyway the concept is that the decorative shape signifies a kind of quality because it can only be made by hand, no machine capable of cutting in and under and diminishing to a zero degree point.
Yes, all the work is axe-made: squaring up the timbers, mortise and tenon joints, door rabbits, trenches for the withies, also plenty of axe work in the finish carpentry.
If there is one resource I have here it is good clay not too deep under ground.

It makes an excellent plaster

finished off with a lime plaster and white wash.

 

[jake pogg]

Wow,Ernest,that's very cool...So the sticks get rabbeted and lath of some sort sprung therein,and the withies then woven in around those splits/lath?

That clay does indeed look as pure as the driven snow...incredible...straight out of the ground,and That consistent....(we're very clay-poor around here).

And those plastered panels work well with the beams around them?They don't crack off or separate,no special treatment of the joints?
It looks Very neat,and Old World
(i can even see what looks like one of them typically suicidal Dutch ladders through the door on left of photo(so steep as to hardly warrant a term "stairs"...not for the hungover or otherwise befuddled)