Small Knife Carve Off - "Infi v the Rest"

Well, I've selected my favorite knife in the test because I have one just like it, and am prepared to be outraged if anything else comes out on top.

Just kidding, looking forward to the outcomes.
 
Just want to add my thanks. I am learning a lot and I think these are going to be my favorite reviews. So much thought and experience expressed so well!

Thanks again, Mike
 
Many thanks for all the kind comments guys ... I have managed to finish the test now ...so I thought I would bump it up.
 
Just read some of your posts on britishblades with Jerry H. They are also very educational. You've got a lot of experience and great ideas. Many thanks.
 
man, thank you for your tests, cool.
what do you think retention of INFI that comparision with other steels you tested.
what is/are the INFI advantages ?
thanks

dingy
 
EXCELLENT POST Peter!!!!! I learned A LOT from your tests!!! This would make a GREAT reference post..........maybe we could get this stickied for a while?!?!?

On a side note...how do you think the little Game Wardens would have done? I know you've mentioned a thicker grip like the one pictured below would probably be more comfortable in use than the standard slabs, so I might have to send it to you for testing...;)

KnivesandSigcombo014.jpg

KnivesandSigcombo015.jpg



Stump
 
Awesome post and comparrison. I read everything I appreciate all the work you put into not only testing but explaining your findings and supporting your choices.
 
dingy said:
man, thank you for your tests, cool.
what do you think retention of INFI that comparision with other steels you tested.
what is/are the INFI advantages ?
thanks

dingy
Click to expand...

Infi as a steel has excellent edge retention .... there was a test done a long while back by Mike Turbor I think comparing a Basic 9 to a Cold Steel Trailmaster and on edge retention they taped off a few inches of blade near the handle and ran the knives using some clamp through sheets and sheets of cardboard .... and the ASM Basic 9 easily came out on top.

To talk properly about edge retention of a steel you need to get quite technical about how the carbides on the edge lie in the steel .... how they are layered and how they are able to remain in situ behind each other ... basically how uniform they are .... this probably explains why the best steels are now looking at a powdered format to enable consistancy in this aspect ...

My review though is showing that for simple "use" ... it is the design of the knife that makes a lot of difference .... basically the type of grind and the type of edge play a great part in actually enjoying "performance" when it comes to simple use.

I don't find out anything unusual though ... my findings basically say that a thinner and harder profile cuts more easily than a thicker one or a knife that is a bit too acute on the angle of the edge and which consequently "rolls" ... and that what can improve the "rolling" problem a bit is a higher Rc setting .... although that is not a substitute for using certain key principles .... such as a thin grind brought to a sensible micro convex bevel or secondary bevel seems to work the best ....

This goes hand in hand with what the competition cutter guys are finding with their knives .... they have thick spines for strength ...especially when chopping .... but go to a thin apex on the grind by the edge ... and are then sharpened with an edge that is convex and I bet reasonably robust in angle ...something like 18 degrees either side or 36 degrees inclusive .... so that the edge is less likely to roll but resistance wise there is not a thick aspect to the steel behind the shoulder of the edge so it can bite deep.

This is how edges like that can cut free hanging sewing thread etc ....

I guess what this cluster of knives have shown is that the one that possibly comes closest to a competition knife style .... and Itou as a maker is much more recognised as a Chef Knife maker where cutting is a "premium" requirement .... that this type of grind works best also for carving with wood ... and again .... hardly suprising... if the grind also works well on food and meat.

The thing with Infi though is finding the right knife in Jerry's range that meets this sort of spec .... there were some BAD's done to a higher Rc setting and had thinner blades .... I have'nt got one ... but I bet they would do very well in this sort of thing .... and these were sold through Skunk I think and did have the caveat that they were not meant for "leverage" work .... but would still be covered by the guarantee if they were broken.

If Jerry could improve upon the availability of thinner Infi with a higher hardness in his smaller knives or even thick Infi with enough depth in the blade to become thin at the edge and give it a higher hardness .... and simply qualify that these edges are more for cutting than prying or chopping through metal .... then I think he would be on to a winner ....

Infi works best .... as is .... in large chopping knives .... the edges don't chip out ... they roll and can be easily fixed.

You don't need that spec though for a smaller EDC style blade if your main use is "cutting" ... you can go harder and thinner behind the edge shoulder and get IMO better performance ....

Just don't use them for prybars or baton them through coins etc .... uses IMO again ... which are not meant for good quality knives you carry on your belt for cutting.

Different of course for something bigger ... hit a rock with a large competition knife when chopping near the ground and likely the edge may "ripple" .... for that reason the judges check the blades after every course of cutting has been completed .... they know these blades are right on the very "edge" of what the steel can take ....

Hit a rock with your KZ or Basic 9 or 11 or Mistress etc ... and sometimes it is'nt even worth stopping to repair the damage as it is too small .... or if there is some damage .... a quick going over the edge where the steel has rolled with a honing steel to straighten it up .... and you are good to go.

You won't do that so easily at a higher Rc setting .... much more likely to have the edge chip out ....

So keep Infi as is for the "choppers" .... and tweak some Infi for a few "professional cutting blades" ... for HOGS who want to cut stuff .... and don't need to pry etc with the blade ...:thumbup:
 
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I like the Gamewarden you have a lot Stump ... as you say the thick handles would be very comfortable and the flat grind makes for a good profile .... I expect it would be up there with the S5LE and the RMD .... they take great edges ....

But a thick gripped Gamewarden with a thin piece of stock done the same as a flat grind and with a Rc 62 setting .... now that spec is likely over "time" and a fair bit of use .... to strike you as cutting into the wood easier and deeper than your other one ....

It would take a fair bit of use and time to tell the difference perhaps ... but it would show through ... especially if you alternated cuts .... that's why the other knives were scored slightly higher ....

But an Infi Game Warden is an ideal knife for carving as a design ... it just would benefit IMO from being tweaked to a different HT than it's larger cousins who do the chopping ... :thumbup:
 
Awesome review Peter!!! Thank you so much for going to so much trouble and posting here for all us knife nerds. :)
 
PeterPHWS said:
Infi as a steel has excellent edge retention .... there was a test done a long while back by Mike Turbor I think comparing a Basic 9 to a Cold Steel Trailmaster and on edge retention they taped off a few inches of blade near the handle and ran the knives using some clamp through sheets and sheets of cardboard .... and the ASM Basic 9 easily came out on top.

To talk properly about edge retention of a steel you need to get quite technical about how the carbides on the edge lie in the steel .... how they are layered and how they are able to remain in situ behind each other ... basically how uniform they are .... this probably explains why the best steels are now looking at a powdered format to enable consistancy in this aspect ...

My review though is showing that for simple "use" ... it is the design of the knife that makes a lot of difference .... basically the type of grind and the type of edge play a great part in actually enjoying "performance" when it comes to simple use.

I don't find out anything unusual though ... my findings basically say that a thinner and harder profile cuts more easily than a thicker one or a knife that is a bit too acute on the angle of the edge and which consequently "rolls" ... and that what can improve the "rolling" problem a bit is a higher Rc setting .... although that is not a substitute for using certain key principles .... such as a thin grind brought to a sensible micro convex bevel or secondary bevel seems to work the best ....

This goes hand in hand with what the competition cutter guys are finding with their knives .... they have thick spines for strength ...especially when chopping .... but go to a thin apex on the grind by the edge ... and are then sharpened with an edge that is convex and I bet reasonably robust in angle ...something like 18 degrees either side or 36 degrees inclusive .... so that the edge is less likely to roll but resistance wise there is not a thick aspect to the steel behind the shoulder of the edge so it can bite deep.

This is how edges like that can cut free hanging sewing thread etc ....

I guess what this cluster of knives have shown is that the one that possibly comes closest to a competition knife style .... and Itou as a maker is much more recognised as a Chef Knife maker where cutting is a "premium" requirement .... that this type of grind works best also for carving with wood ... and again .... hardly suprising... if the grind also works well on food and meat.

The thing with Infi though is finding the right knife in Jerry's range that meets this sort of spec .... there were some BAD's done to a higher Rc setting and had thinner blades .... I have'nt got one ... but I bet they would do very well in this sort of thing .... and these were sold through Skunk I think and did have the caveat that they were not meant for "leverage" work .... but would still be covered by the guarantee if they were broken.

If Jerry could improve upon the availability of thinner Infi with a higher hardness in his smaller knives or even thick Infi with enough depth in the blade to become thin at the edge and give it a higher hardness .... and simply qualify that these edges are more for cutting than prying or chopping through metal .... then I think he would be on to a winner ....

Infi works best .... as is .... in large chopping knives .... the edges don't chip out ... they roll and can be easily fixed.

You don't need that spec though for a smaller EDC style blade if your main use is "cutting" ... you can go harder and thinner behind the edge shoulder and get IMO better performance ....

Just don't use them for prybars or baton them through coins etc .... uses IMO again ... which are not meant for good quality knives you carry on your belt for cutting.

Different of course for something bigger ... hit a rock with a large competition knife when chopping near the ground and likely the edge may "ripple" .... for that reason the judges check the blades after every course of cutting has been completed .... they know these blades are right on the very "edge" of what the steel can take ....

Hit a rock with your KZ or Basic 9 or 11 or Mistress etc ... and sometimes it is'nt even worth stopping to repair the damage as it is too small .... or if there is some damage .... a quick going over the edge where the steel has rolled with a honing steel to straighten it up .... and you are good to go.

You won't do that so easily at a higher Rc setting .... much more likely to have the edge chip out ....

So keep Infi as is for the "choppers" .... and tweak some Infi for a few "professional cutting blades" ... for HOGS who want to cut stuff .... and don't need to pry etc with the blade ...:thumbup:
Click to expand...

you did great!
thank you again for enlighten me.
dingy:thumbup:
 
RobStanley said:
Awesome review Peter!!! Thank you so much for going to so much trouble and posting here for all us knife nerds. :)
Click to expand...

My favourite Aussie expression ... use it all the time now .... " No worries mate" :D Hope to meet you sometime at one of the shows :thumbup:
 
Glad I came back through to pick up the rest of the knives in the review.

I have been looking at scandi bushcrafter designs with interest lately.

Always wonder about the edge rolling tearing out when taken full flat.

I have some knives I use micro bevels on thin convex edges and had great results.

One in particular, the thinnest convex I have is 5160 steel, and just slices amazing, because I took the primary convex bevel thin, and then as I have been stropping the edge, it is done at a higher angle.

Thanks again for taking the time.
 
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