Small Knife Recommendation

TheGearGuy said:
Are you (OP) completely unaware of the current political climate? Do you not realize that with the violence that has occurred in recent years and months on school campuses (including in Colorado) that you are asking for trouble? I think the fact that you are considering concealing a knife at a High School is either supremely ignorant or highly dubious to say the least. Someone should notify your school about your intentions to bring a concealed weapon on campus. There's no good reason for any student to "NEED" a knife on campus. Scissors will do just fine for anything you need to cut at school, leave the knife at home.
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That mindset is the type that allows more restrictive knife laws to be made. As far as NEED, I use my knife all the time. I'm the only person at work who carries a knife, and my coworkers are constantly asking me to cut something for them. I carried a knife everyday in school, it was probably illegal in hindsight, but it was normal to me to have a knife on me. Used it in shop class because the school blades weren't sharp enough for me, used it many times at lunch. It was a SAK, which I had on my keyring, which was on a carabiner clipped to a belt loop, so it was dangling in the open all day every day.

I know this is a knife board, but that level of derp is the kind of logic I see made by anti-gun people all the time. I take my Glock everywhere because I know how the world works, and there is a snowflakes chance in hell that I will actually NEED it, but I don't want to be the snowflake without it.
 
If it's legal for a student to carry a knife, and if the school rules permit the student to carry a knife, and if the head school administrator doesn't have a problem with the student carrying a knife, then I don't see how anyone else is in any position to tell the student that they shouldn't carry a knife.

I wouldn't automatically assume that every school and every head school administrator is anti-knife.

I carried a knife through high school. Not because I needed a knife at high school, but because sometimes I needed it after school, like if I was going from school straight to work.

Many people believe that the greatest threats to American freedom are terrorists or our own government. But I believe there is another threat to American freedom- people who believe that Americans shouldn't exercise their lawful rights, which they are fully permitted to exercise, because someone MIGHT have a negative reaction. To deny oneself a right that one wishes to exercise for fear of how others might react, is the very death of freedom.

And as far as basing ones choice to carry a knife purely on "need", if that's the criteria, I imagine that there are a lot of people on this forum who don't really need to carry a knife. But why should anyone let that stop them. Isn't that a great thing about this country- we have the right to carry knives even when we don't need them.
 
killgar said:
If it's legal for a student to carry a knife, and if the school rules permit the student to carry a knife, and if the head school administrator doesn't have a problem with the student carrying a knife, then I don't see how anyone else is in any position to tell the student that they shouldn't carry a knife.

I wouldn't automatically assume that every school and every head school administrator is anti-knife.

I carried a knife through high school. Not because I needed a knife at high school, but because sometimes I needed it after school, like if I was going from school straight to work.

Many people believe that the greatest threats to American freedom are terrorists or our own government. But I believe there is another threat to American freedom- people who believe that Americans shouldn't exercise their lawful rights, which they are fully permitted to exercise, because someone MIGHT have a negative reaction. To deny oneself a right that one wishes to exercise for fear of how others might react, is the very death of freedom.

And as far as basing ones choice to carry a knife purely on "need", if that's the criteria, I imagine that there are a lot of people on this forum who don't really need to carry a knife. But why should anyone let that stop them. Isn't that a great thing about this country- we have the right to carry knives even when we don't need them.
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Well said.
 
I carried a knife in High School where it was neither permitted, nor legal.

I carried a SOG Crosscut (for less than $15.00!? What a steal!) And nobody looked at me cross-eyed, even when I used The knife to clean my nails or start peeling a grapefruit (I wrestled) when bored in class. A multi tool is an excellent choice because it has so much more defensible (and apparent) utility than just a folder, and nobody is fooled into thinking a multi-tool is a weapon. Not legal counsel, just a thought. The leatherman micra would be an even better choice! Made in the USA with 420 HC...

Boy I talked myself into it... I think I'm ordering a micra today :D
 
link2derek said:
Another vote for the Spyderco Dragonfly (in G-10 if you can swing it).
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A beauty of a little knife is the Dragonfly - move up to the Delica if you can for easy one handed opening but the Dragonfly is otherwise perfect and especially discreet. If you can bring a knife to school I say do it - Gibbs' Rule # 9 always applies.
 
I feel for you Cali people. When I pick my kids up from school, or attend any of their programs, I'm packing multiple knives and a forty five. But before I get spanked by anyone, it is legal in my state with simple carry permit. In fact I think we are the only state that allows carry on all state property... Including k-12-Uni. Yay freedom. Not much left, but gotta love it anyway.
 
FrankMA said:
Are you serious?
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slims_88 said:
That mindset is the type that allows more restrictive knife laws to be made. As far as NEED, I use my knife all the time. I'm the only person at work who carries a knife, and my coworkers are constantly asking me to cut something for them. I carried a knife everyday in school, it was probably illegal in hindsight, but it was normal to me to have a knife on me. Used it in shop class because the school blades weren't sharp enough for me, used it many times at lunch. It was a SAK, which I had on my keyring, which was on a carabiner clipped to a belt loop, so it was dangling in the open all day every day.

I know this is a knife board, but that level of derp is the kind of logic I see made by anti-gun people all the time. I take my Glock everywhere because I know how the world works, and there is a snowflakes chance in hell that I will actually NEED it, but I don't want to be the snowflake without it.
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killgar said:
If it's legal for a student to carry a knife, and if the school rules permit the student to carry a knife, and if the head school administrator doesn't have a problem with the student carrying a knife, then I don't see how anyone else is in any position to tell the student that they shouldn't carry a knife.

I wouldn't automatically assume that every school and every head school administrator is anti-knife.

I carried a knife through high school. Not because I needed a knife at high school, but because sometimes I needed it after school, like if I was going from school straight to work.

Many people believe that the greatest threats to American freedom are terrorists or our own government. But I believe there is another threat to American freedom- people who believe that Americans shouldn't exercise their lawful rights, which they are fully permitted to exercise, because someone MIGHT have a negative reaction. To deny oneself a right that one wishes to exercise for fear of how others might react, is the very death of freedom.

And as far as basing ones choice to carry a knife purely on "need", if that's the criteria, I imagine that there are a lot of people on this forum who don't really need to carry a knife. But why should anyone let that stop them. Isn't that a great thing about this country- we have the right to carry knives even when we don't need them.
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OK. If anyone bothered to check the facts you would all see that it IS NOT LEGAL to carry any knife at any school in Colorado anymore. It may have been OK when I was a kid and when all of you were...but it isn't now. Here's an excerpt from the Colorado Attorney General about knives in school campuses...

V. SPECIFIC CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS RELATED
TO SCHOOLS
Deadly weapons are prohibited in schools.
Under § 18-12-105.5(1), C.R.S., it is
a class six felony if any person
“knowingly and unlawfully and without le
gal authority carries, brings, or has
in such person’s possession a deadly wea
pon ... in or on the real estate and all
improvements erected thereon of any pub
lic or private elementary, middle,
junior high, or high school...” A “deadly
weapon” is defined as any of the
following which in the manner it is used
or intended to be used is capable of
producing death or serious bodily injury:
a firearm, either loaded or unloaded,
a knife, a bludgeon, or any other wea
pon, device, instrument, material, or
substance, whether animate or inan
imate. § 18-1-901(3)(e), C.R.S.

That says ANY KNIFE, ANY PUBLIC OR PRIVATE ELEMENTARY, MIDDLE, OR HIGH SCHOOL. Things have changed. It goes on to say that parents can be charged for the "crimes" of these teenagers. You don't have to "assume every school is anti-knife" if you look up the law and see that it says it applies to EVERY SCHOOL in Colorado. Check the Colorado Attorney General's website if you want to be working with facts.

Don't misunderstand my viewpoint please. I carry multiple knives every day and wouldn't consider otherwise. I am a proud gun owner and consider my knife and gun rights sacred. I ALSO have two teenagers and my son is a sophomore in high school. I encourage my kids to use knives at home, on camping trips and whenever the opportunity presents itself. But, in an environment where the State A.G. has decided to crack down on school violence a teenager with otherwise good intentions that carries a knife to school when it is expressly not allowed, can find him or herself and parents in a boatload of trouble. For no good reason IMO...but trouble nonetheless. This is why I say it's not worth it...you don't NEED to cut anything at school bad enough to take the risk anymore. It's the same thing when I have to leave my knives in the car to go through the metal detector at the bank that was robbed...I don't like it, but it's not worth setting off the alarm. When you get out of school, get the knife out of the car and enjoy it where you can enjoy it without the legal risk is all I'm ultimately suggesting.

More importantly, we responsible adults should not be telling this kid that he should break the law. You may not have known it was definitely against the law but you do now. If you're not sure look it up yourself. If he wants to go to school and take the risk that's a decision for him and his parents to make. We should not be openly encouraging minors to go do something that can get them arrested and let them think there's no risk.

Killgar - your conclusion suggesting I am "people who believe that Americans shouldn't exercise their lawful rights...." is based assumptions you made that were flatly incorrect. It's extremely offensive as well. The truth is the school rules do NOT permit knives. I am not telling him not to do something that is his right, I telling him he's going to get arrested if he does it because it is NOT his right and he's better off knowing the truth.
 
The Colorado penal code can be found at http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado This is the website that official Colorado websites link as the source for Colorado law.

According to the Colorado penal code, revised in 2015-

Section 18-12-101.- Entitled "Definitions". Subsection (f) refers to knives.

Quote- "Knife" means any dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over three and one-half inches in length, or any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds, but does not include a hunting or fishing knife carried for sport use. -Unquote.

Section 18-12-105.5.- Refers to carrying weapons on school property. And at the end of that statute it says-

Quote-"Unless the prosecution can also establish that the person used or intended to use the knife as a weapon, a person cannot be prosecuted under subsection (1) for carrying a knife with a blade less than three and one-half inches in length on school grounds. Even though subsection (1) references the deadly weapon statute, that statute does not specifically define "knife". The term "knife" is, however, specifically limited to a weapon with a blade longer than three and one-half inches in length."-Unquote

And those statutes are dated 2015.

To us, a knife is a knife, regardless of it's blade length. But when it comes to the law, the devil is always in the details. And under Colorado law, a knife is only considered to be a "knife" if the blade is longer than three and one-half inches. So, reading those statutes, it would appear that it is legal to carry a knife onto school property in Colorado as long as the blade is no longer that 3.5".

Anyone who wants to check my "facts" can go to the website I linked above and read the laws for themselves. After you click the terms of usage agreement button, click on "Colorado Revised Statutes" at the left of the screen, and when the title list of codes comes up, click the box in front of "Title 18 Criminal Code", then you can use the search box at the top of the screen and enter the statute numbers I provided, or anything else you want to search for.

TheGearGUY, I went to the Colorado Attorney Generals website at http://www.coloradoattorneygeneral.gov but I was unable to find the statute you provided, not even when I entered it into the search function. Perhaps you can give me some directions as to how and where I can find that statute so I can read it for myself.
 
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Here's the manual that is distributed to Colorado schools to inform them on how to deal with School Violence issues. In the search function you can type "school violence" and it comes up first. It began in 1999 and is updated by the A.G. office as laws change. This is still the current guide being distributed to schools for reference. The information pertaining to this subject can be found on page 30.
http://www.coloradoattorneygeneral.gov/sites/default/files/uploads/violence_prevention/svpm2008.pdf
http://www.coloradoattorneygeneral....iolence_prevention/school_violence_prevention

The example of code 18-12-105.5 is exactly the problem here. All a prosecution needs to do in order to charge a kid with a felony is establish(not prove) "intent" to use as a weapon. Futhermore code 18-1-901(e) (4) muddies the water even more including "any other weapon, device, instrument, material, substance whether animate or inanimate..." under the definition of "deadly weapons". Which means that a knife doesn't even have to be defined as a "knife" to qualify as a felony weapon on a school campus. "Establishing intent" is relatively easy and can come from as little as misunderstanding an over-heard conversation. It is also the only thing that stands between a kid on campus with a knife and a felony arrest.

You're right the devil IS in the details. The legal details are grey like usual. The big problem here is the penalty is not a misdemeanor, it's a felony. And, whether or not this kid deals with a felony criminal proceeding (regardless of the outcome) is up to a judgement call by school administrators that are not legal experts. The guide-line handbook that is provided to schools sites code 18-12-105.5 but does not include the complete written 18-12-105.5 code where you can read the annotation about 3.5", and it might not matter if it did. All it takes is one over-zealous "Barney Fife" type to over-react to any number of circumstances for the kid to be screwed.

The risk vs. reward here is ridiculous. I LOVE my knives. But, I also know that having one in your pocket for 5 hours of school isn't worth risking a felony proceeding.

Again, if he wants to push his luck (maybe he's the most polite and discrete kid ever and has no reason for concern?? I don't know..I hope he is..but I don't know) it's up to him and his parents. If he's going to choose to take the risk, he needs to understand the unfortunately harsh reality that he could be slapped with.
 
TheGearGuy said:
Here's the manual that is distributed to Colorado schools to inform them on how to deal with School Violence issues. In the search function you can type "school violence" and it comes up first. It began in 1999 and is updated by the A.G. office as laws change. This is still the current guide being distributed to schools for reference. The information pertaining to this subject can be found on page 30.
http://www.coloradoattorneygeneral.gov/sites/default/files/uploads/violence_prevention/svpm2008.pdf
http://www.coloradoattorneygeneral....iolence_prevention/school_violence_prevention

The example of code 18-12-105.5 is exactly the problem here. All a prosecution needs to do in order to charge a kid with a felony is establish(not prove) "intent" to use as a weapon. Futhermore code 18-1-901(e) (4) muddies the water even more including "any other weapon, device, instrument, material, substance whether animate or inanimate..." under the definition of "deadly weapons". Which means that a knife doesn't even have to be defined as a "knife" to qualify as a felony weapon on a school campus. "Establishing intent" is relatively easy and can come from as little as misunderstanding an over-heard conversation. It is also the only thing that stands between a kid on campus with a knife and a felony arrest.

You're right the devil IS in the details. The legal details are grey like usual. The big problem here is the penalty is not a misdemeanor, it's a felony. And, whether or not this kid deals with a felony criminal proceeding (regardless of the outcome) is up to a judgement call by school administrators that are not legal experts. The guide-line handbook that is provided to schools sites code 18-12-105.5 but does not include the complete written 18-12-105.5 code where you can read the annotation about 3.5", and it might not matter if it did. All it takes is one over-zealous "Barney Fife" type to over-react to any number of circumstances for the kid to be screwed.

The risk vs. reward here is ridiculous. I LOVE my knives. But, I also know that having one in your pocket for 5 hours of school isn't worth risking a felony proceeding.

Again, if he wants to push his luck (maybe he's the most polite and discrete kid ever and has no reason for concern?? I don't know..I hope he is..but I don't know) it's up to him and his parents. If he's going to choose to take the risk, he needs to understand the unfortunately harsh reality that he could be slapped with.
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Thank you for those links. And I agree with much of what you said here. And as many in this thread have said, the OP (or any student) should consult with their head school administrator to find out what is or is not permitted.

In regards to the risks of carrying a knife, we all face the risk of encountering someone in a position of authority who may act over-zealously, or be ignorant of the law, or misinterpret the law, or interpret the law in a way that is least favorable to us. And as a result, we all face the risk of arrest, and even conviction of a serious crime, even if we are within our legal rights.

As an example, here in California there is a case going before the California Supreme Court (California v. Castillolopez). A man was arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon because he was allegedly carrying an open Swiss Army knife in a concealed manner. The man was originally convicted, but his conviction was overturned. The prosecutor is arguing that the Swiss Army knife the man had was a "locking" folder, and therefore illegal to carry concealed with the blade open. Clearly the appeals court did not agree with the prosecutors definition of a "locking" folding knife.

A few years back another California prosecutor tried to argue that knives that could be opened manually with one hand were "switchblades". That case also went to the CA Supreme Court. And the court ruled against the prosecutors made up definition of "switchblade".

So there's always risk involved with carrying a knife. Even when it's legal to do so.

In any event, it is the responsibility of any person considering carrying a knife to research the matter thoroughly, and consider any risks. They should know their local laws, and even consult an attorney if necessary. And in the case of a student seeking to carry a knife onto school property, they should consult their head school administrator. And even if everyone says that it's alright to carry a knife onto school property, the individual student, and their parents, must decide if it's worth the risk of any possible trouble. Of course, when the subject is carrying a knife, freewill, and freedom of choice, always come with risk.

I don't believe that anyone in this thread has told the OP to ignore the law, or school policy, or school administrators, and carry a knife regardless of any possible risks.

Bottom line is- it's up to the OP, his parents, school administrators, and their various interpretations of the law to determine whether he carries a knife to school, not you, or I, or anyone else here. Beyond that, people on this forum can suggest knives that fit the OP's described criteria, but that doesn't mean the OP is required to follow their recommendations, or carry any knife to school.
 
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killgar said:
Thank you for those links. And I agree with much of what you said here. And as many in this thread have said, the OP (or any student) should consult with their head school administrator to find out what is or is not permitted.

In regards to the risks of carrying a knife, we all face the risk of encountering someone in a position of authority who may act over-zealously, or be ignorant of the law, or misinterpret the law, or interpret the law in a way that is least favorable to us. And as a result, we all face the risk of arrest, and even conviction of a serious crime, even if we are within our legal rights.

As an example, here in California there is a case going before the California Supreme Court (California v. Castillolopez). A man was arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon because he was allegedly carrying an open Swiss Army knife in a concealed manner. The man was originally convicted, but his conviction was overturned. The prosecutor is arguing that the Swiss Army knife the man had was a "locking" folder, and therefore illegal to carry concealed with the blade open. Clearly the appeals court did not agree with the prosecutors definition of a "locking" folding knife.

A few years back another California prosecutor tried to argue that knives that could be opened manually with one hand were "switchblades". That case also went to the CA Supreme Court. And the court ruled against the prosecutors made up definition of "switchblade".

So there's always risk involved with carrying a knife. Even when it's legal to do so.

In any event, it is the responsibility of any person considering carrying a knife to research the matter thoroughly, and consider any risks. They should know their local laws, and even consult an attorney if necessary. And in the case of a student seeking to carry a knife onto school property, they should consult their head school administrator. And even if everyone says that it's alright to carry a knife onto school property, the individual student, and their parents, must decide if it's worth the risk of any possible trouble. Of course, when the subject is carrying a knife, freewill, and freedom of choice, always come with risk.

I don't believe that anyone in this thread has told the OP to ignore the law, or school policy, or school administrators, and carry a knife regardless of any possible risks.

Bottom line is- it's up to the OP, his parents, school administrators, and their various interpretations of the law to determine whether he carries a knife to school, not you, or I, or anyone else here. Beyond that, people on this forum can suggest knives that fit the OP's described criteria, but that doesn't mean the OP is required to follow their recommendations, or carry any knife to school.
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:thumbup: I appreciate the thought and consideration you've put into this. It sounds like we basically agree at this point.

I hope our discussion (albeit a bit terse in the beginning) is helpful to the OP in that we've brought to light most if not all of the details and laws he needs to know about.

Have a good weekend. :)
 
TheGearGuy said:
:thumbup: I appreciate the thought and consideration you've put into this. It sounds like we basically agree at this point.

I hope our discussion (albeit a bit terse in the beginning) is helpful to the OP in that we've brought to light most if not all of the details and laws he needs to know about.

Have a good weekend. :)
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Believe it or not, but I'm actually a pretty friendly guy. It's just not always apparent over the internet. ;)

I enjoy a good legal debate, especially if the other person has facts and sources to back up their position (like you do). And if the debate provides valuable information to others, then so much the better.

It's been good chatting with you. :)
 
Thank you guys for the discussion. I am happy for the clarity and that we have an amicable conclusion.We all need to be aware of the "laws" perceived and real as we move about in the world. I am one of those guys who is very rarely without a knife. Fortunately Maine is a bit open minded compared to others and will be even more so in October when some "auto knives" carry changes take effect.

Meanwhile, I wonder what the OP will do about his - Small Knife Recommendations :rolleyes:
 
Hard to beat the Dragonfly, but the Boker Nano on Comeuppance's list is definitely worth looking into—it's a terrific little knife that feels great in your hand, more solid than you might expect, and looks a lot friendlier than most (especially in colored scales) while still being an awesome blade to show off to your friends. It also comes in a non-locking version, if that turns out to be an issue.

I own two (a black plastic/440C one and the decade edition in CF/VG-10, both locking), and at 1-7/8" it's what I'd carry if that were somehow a restriction. It's definitely what I'd have wanted in high school.

As for the legality or wisdom of where and how you carry whatever you decide to buy, I am neither your lawyer nor your dad. Take from my recommendation what you will.
 
TheGearGuy said:
The example of code 18-12-105.5 is exactly the problem here. All a prosecution needs to do in order to charge a kid with a felony is establish(not prove) "intent" to use as a weapon. Futhermore code 18-1-901(e) (4) muddies the water even more including "any other weapon, device, instrument, material, substance whether animate or inanimate..." under the definition of "deadly weapons". Which means that a knife doesn't even have to be defined as a "knife" to qualify as a felony weapon on a school campus. "Establishing intent" is relatively easy and can come from as little as misunderstanding an over-heard conversation. It is also the only thing that stands between a kid on campus with a knife and a felony arrest.
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I know you mean well, and your concern is definitely valid, but this paragraph alone makes it clear that you don't have any education or training in statutory interpretation. I think it's best to leave it at advising OP that he should think twice about doing something that might get him expelled or worse, and seek legal advice if he has any doubts. (Also, now that I've brought it up, I should probably go copy my disclaimer signature over from Quora.)
 
Doesn't fit all of your requirements, but no one would know if you were carrying a Spyderco Roadie :D
[video=youtube;QKE7zEwceFc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKE7zEwceFc[/video]

jday2727 said:
Hey everybody, so I am looking for a new small blade to EDC. Here are the requirements:
-Must be a folder
-Blade length anywhere from 1.5-2.5 inches
-Locking would be nice
-Also would like a pocket clip

I will be carrying this at school around people who don't know that we are allowed to have knives. Think Boker Subcom, Spyderco Clipitool/Bug series kind of things. Thanks everyone!
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