Small knives: Busse vs Fehrman advantages?

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kookery

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My researches led me to Fehrman instead of Busse as the leader for small knives. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think INFI loses some of its advantages when used in small and thin blades.

It appears to me that Fehrman's version of CPM-3V only falls behind INFI in corrosion resistance and abuse-level toughness, but pulls slightly ahead of INFI in edge retention for the light duty tasks small knives are typically used for, without really sacrificing very much overall because the 2 steels are in the same elite league when heat treated and quality-controlled by craftsman in the class of Busse and Fehrman.

It doesn't look like Fehrman is much cheaper than Busse. You're still going to have to pay hundreds of dollars for one knife, and if you can afford to do that, the cost differences aren't going to change your mind about what you like. So, as far as what I like, it looks to me like the Busse hole gets in the way of the choil on small knives. The Fehrmans have a nicely ergonomic choil and guard that makes it easy to choke up a little for fine work. I haven't touched either yet, but that's just what it looks like to me from the photos here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1010965-Small-Busse-knives

This post by Insipid Moniker influenced me a lot on the financial advantages of buying Busse knives:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-really-worth-the-bux?p=11383044#post11383044

One of my favorite things about Busse is their resale value. Fehrman seems to be similar, but still not quite at Busse's level. I'm more of an armchair user than a collector or pro user, so being able to cash out if I decide later that I don't want to keep so much money in knives makes me feel really good about seriously considering getting a Busse. That could end up being the deciding factor even if Fehrman would actually be my first preference. So, it might not be very hard to talk me into getting a Busse, or maybe even both.

Although theoretically I can afford to blow a few hundred dollars on a fancy knife, I would feel much better about it if I did my homework first. So Busse fans, what grade do I get? Thoughts?
 
I'm sure someone will be along soon with more directly relevant experience, but in the meantime...

The smallest Ferhman knife I've used is the First Strike. It is a gorgeous knife and truly top quality. I must admit that I found it better in a choked-up grip than the Fusion Steel Heart I was comparing it to. As soon as I tried to use it heavily in a normal grip though, I found the design of the First Strike's handle quite uncomfortable. The FSH on the other hand (well, in the same hand actually) felt almost part of me. I sold the First Strike because I knew I would simply never carry it while I had the FSH available. If I could have afforded to 'collect' it, I would happily have kept and admired it.

I've only had a few smaller Busse knives (Cultellus, Active Duty and Badger Attack III, and a BATAC although I'm not sure I would class that as small). I'm in the minority (I think) in thinking they would be better without a choil and the edge all the way to the guard. This has, of course, been available in some designs since but I ran out of money.

For really detailed work, I find myself gripping the smaller knives with my index finger over the guard, almost pinching the guard in the first bend down my finger. Or, if using the blade facing me, with the pad of my index finger over the hole and the bend of the finger across the 'underside' of the blade, off the edge of the handle. Not the safest positions, but I've yet to get cut from them. Both allow me to have the edge right up to my hand.

I do not find bridging the guard to put my index finger into the larger choil on the larger Busse knives to be a problem at all, any more than it was with the First Strike. The difference there was more to do with the handle shape than the guard, with the First Strike seeming to lend itself slightly more to a choked-up grip, in my hand at least. Not by much though.

The small Fehrman Peace Maker doesn't strike me as being much better really, especially since I still think 'lose the choil'. I did consider it at one time, when looking at smaller knives, but ended up discounting it for that reason.

In terms of value, from what I've seen Fehrman knives hold their value well, but don't increase. Busses often do increase, but it's not guaranteed.

If I were facing your decision, I would get a Busse without a choil (CABS?) In fact, you've got me wishing I could afford one now!

Of course, it's all personal anyway, down to how the knife fits your hand. When spending this sort of money, I'm looking for close-to-perfection in that. Only trying them out will answer all the questions.
 
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Thanks for your detailed info! Yes, you are right, for this amount of money, "perfection" is what we rightfully want to get, as close as possible. Unfortunately, that isn't so easy when everybody's hands feel the same knives differently. I must be enjoying the time I'm spending researching this, or I would just use a cheap knife with no research effort and replace it whenever I felt like it.
 
What are your priorities for your knife? What will you use it for? We can better answer your question if you let us know what your intended usage is! Slicing, bushcraft, chopping, batoning, ect.
 
snwbrdr202 said:
What are your priorities for your knife? What will you use it for? We can better answer your question if you let us know what your intended usage is! Slicing, bushcraft, chopping, batoning, ect.
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For little knives, it will be household things in the kitchen, and some utility uses in the garage, in addition to some bushcraft, camping, traveling, semi-outdoorsy things. Honestly, they're probably not going to be used very much, which is why I described myself as an "armchair user". My #1 concern is the retention of value over the long term (decades+), and having something that is worth the bother of keeping it around when I don't really need it.
 
Knives are tools. I don't concern myself whether my wrenches are holding their value. No one lives forever. Buy a good knife, use it. Some things aren't meant to be analyzed too much. I was you ten years ago.
 
You would not be the first piglet or hog who determined for himself that the properties of INFI do not lend themselves to small knives to the same degree as they do for large blades. No shame in that here, and no regrets.
 
Hmm, I have used plenty of small Busse's and they hold up great ?
I mean I have carved, cut and done other things a small knife does and had zero problems ?

chopping with a HACK, not yet, but there is tomorrow.

As far a retaining value I would go with the Busse.
 
kookery said:
For little knives, it will be household things in the kitchen, and some utility uses in the garage, in addition to some bushcraft, camping, traveling, semi-outdoorsy things. Honestly, they're probably not going to be used very much, which is why I described myself as an "armchair user". My #1 concern is the retention of value over the long term (decades+), and having something that is worth the bother of keeping it around when I don't really need it.
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I'd go with the Busse for retention of value. Some even increase in value. YMMV

Unklfranco
 
To be frankly honest, Fehrman's CPM-3V is far overpriced. I've purchased custom CPM-3V knives (big and small) for far much less than what they're offering. In regards to edge retention, I don't see any difference between the two steels
 
Translash said:
To be frankly honest, Fehrman's CPM-3V is far overpriced. I've purchased custom CPM-3V knives (big and small) for far much less than what they're offering. In regards to edge retention, I don't see any difference between the two steels
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Would you care to explain why Fehrman's 3V is overpriced? I own many blades from both Busse and Fehrman. All I can say is the Fehrman blades are absolute worth the price especially when compared to Busse.
 
Well, you are asking in the Busse forum...........were, we tend to be fans of Busse.

I have owned, and used a handful of smaller Busse. It is a steel you don't have to baby, don't have to worry about, don't have to oil, and can use and maintains its value very well.

I love them. Big ones, little ones, shiny ones, coated ones. You can get one with big choil, or no choil. G10 handles, Micarta handles, custom exotic handles. You can get flat ground, saber, convex, hollow ground. Higher hardness Infi (used in the BAD) has better edge retention, and is a wicked thin slicer.




Options my friend..........Options.

Ferhman knives. Will be less expensive, 3V is a dandy steel, and they are available. The down side, is you really are limited to a very narrow selection of blade shape, handle options and finish options. Buy them both, use them, and sell the one you don't love.
 
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Fehrmans 3v heat treat is top notch, but infi takes metallurgy to another level.
Can't go wrong with either choice.
 
hunterseeker5 said:
Lets throw a controversial figure into the mix:
http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/reviews/extreme_judgement.html

One of the few pretty level tests between infi and Fehrman's 3V. Actually thats not entirely fair. The infi tolerated MUCH more prior to failure. If you want the first hand opinion of someone who has tested both back to back you can always go ask Cliff Stamp directly. (or is mentioning him here taboo?)
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Did he get banned or something? I thought he was still a member here and just didn't post much anymore. I'm sure mentioning him is fine.
 
falar said:
Did he get banned or something? I thought he was still a member here and just didn't post much anymore. I'm sure mentioning him is fine.
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No. He is banned. I dont remember what for though.
 
Translash said:
To be frankly honest, Fehrman's CPM-3V is far overpriced. I've purchased custom CPM-3V knives (big and small) for far much less than what they're offering. In regards to edge retention, I don't see any difference between the two steels
Click to expand...

Whether or not Fehrmans are over-priced is subjective, but what is objectively true is that there are other solid options out there in 3V at significantly lower prices (e.g. Big Chris for a custom, Survive Knives for production). That wasn't the case a few years back, when Fehrmans were actually cheaper.

Not saying don't buy a Fehrman (I have one), but if you're in research mode, its worth checking out some of the alternatives.
 
I own Busse, Fehrman and Bark River knives and think they are all great performers. I have only 2 each Fehrman
and Bark River knives. Several Busse and kin. They are allgreat.
 
hunterseeker5 said:
Lets throw a controversial figure into the mix:
http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/reviews/extreme_judgement.html

One of the few pretty level tests between infi and Fehrman's 3V. Actually thats not entirely fair. The infi tolerated MUCH more prior to failure. If you want the first hand opinion of someone who has tested both back to back you can always go ask Cliff Stamp directly. (or is mentioning him here taboo?)
Click to expand...

Nice link. You got my hooked reading all reviews there
 
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