- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 1,449
If its made in a forien contry its required to say where it is from. Products that dont say, are usualy made domesticaly.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
Smith & Wesson Knives
- Thread starter mr.trooper
- Start date
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
yes, I thought the marking was supposed to be permanent, too. Are yoiu sure none of the blades has a stamp hidden somewhere? 
440C seems to be a regular Chinese steel, although we can't tell without using them how well they do it. This sounds well worth the money, though, with horn handles and a good old pattern.
440C seems to be a regular Chinese steel, although we can't tell without using them how well they do it. This sounds well worth the money, though, with horn handles and a good old pattern.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
Who is selling you these knives? They sound like a deal.The Last Confederate said:
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2001
- Messages
- 18,423
Esav Benyamin said:yes, I thought the marking was supposed to be permanent, too. Are yoiu sure none of the blades has a stamp hidden somewhere?
Nope, the main blade has "Smith & Wesson" on the front, "Hammer Forged" on the back, no other markings on any blades. I used to think the mark had to be permanent also, but the way someone explained it to me was that the country of origin had to be on the knife "at the point of import", i.e. when it came through customs. That's why these stickers were technically within the law. I'm not totally sure that's right, but that's how someone explained it to me. Either way, I think it's sneaky.
Esav Benyamin said:
So far the Schrade one I have has held up well, I used it last month to cut up a bunch of cardboard to throw out and it still shaves. Wasn't a huge amount, but 4-5 big boxes.
Esav Benyamin said:
I got mine from an Ebay seller, "richardtexemp", $13.50 with free shipping, bought it on the 18th, he mailed it on the 19th from Rockford, TX. and I got it today. Can't complain there!
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
Thanks! 
No they aren't. Gerber sucks, but Buck's worst knives are better than S&W's best knives (well, most of them). Buck Mayo TNT anyone? Even Buck's Chinese-made slipjoints and Mayo Cutback and Hilo are far better than any similar-priced S&W.mr.trooper said:
A bit of both, IMO.mr.trooper said:
I think S&W knives are a lot better than most people on this forum give them credit for, but they are still very low-end knives and not even in the same league as Buck.
I have a S&W folding karambit and it has no blade play and a good (frame) lock. It is pretty good for 15 bucks, but not great. 2 friends of mine have S&W knives too, and they work well enough.
So when people say S&W knives are worthless junk and a waste of money, they are being snobs. They don't understand that not everyone has the same standards as they.
But S&W is pretty much the bottom of the barrel, and Taylor's business practices are so horrid that the company deserves to be exterminated.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2004
- Messages
- 24,738
I disagree. There's nothing snobby about wanting quality for one's money, even on a budget. With products like Spyderco's Byrd line and Benchmade's Red Class, there's absolutely no reason to resign oneself to an inferior, yet similarily priced product like S&W. If you look at S&W by itself, it might seem reasonably priced for the quality, but if you compare it to other knives like Byrd or BM Red, it's clearly overpriced/inferior.Hair said:
If you go to the supermarket and there's a sale on Grey Poupon that matches the generic dijon mustard, which are you going to get? That's not snobbery.
This might not be the best example though, since generic mustard won't injure you like a crappy knife might.
Actually, you don't disagree. You misunderstood.
I never said it is snobby to want something quality.
I said it is snobby to not be able to understand that what is below your standard might be fine for someone else, and thus it is silly to say that any given knife is worthless junk and a waste of anyone's money.
It would be snobby so say that NO ONE should buy the inferior mustard because it isn't good enough for *YOU*, or the one your prefer. Some people may prefer the other mustard. But for you to want/get the product you prefer is not snobby, and I never said it was.
It is snobby when someone asks about a certain knife, and people with higher standards say the knife is totally useless and that they should buy real knives instead. They don't understand that the given knife might be fine for that person and it might even be more what they want than a more expensive knife.
Everyone has different standards and opinions. I know people that are very happy with their no-name-brand knives and don't understand why I spend more than 3 dollars on a knife. Some of them can't even tell the quality difference. Some of them prefer cheap knives because they can't bring themselves to carrying a more expensive one.
If you feel there is no S&W knife that is good enough for it's price to consider buying, that is fine. I never said that makes you a snob. But not everyone prefers a Byrd and Red Class BM to an S&W. Yes, SOME ACTUALLY PREFER S&W! Which knife is better is a matter of taste. So you have to understand that your opinion is not a fact, and that not everyone wants the same things in a knife that you want.
Snobbery doesn't mean disagreeing with someone or wanting quality. Snobbery means not being able to understand that your opinion is just an opinion and that other people have different opinions, wants, and needs.
I want quality. I bought a Sebenza not too long ago. It was my first knife of that level, and it won't be my last. But I would be a snob to think that anyone with a lesser knife is an idiot, or that they made a mistake. I would be a snob to tell someone to throw away their crappy S&W and buy a Sebenza. I don't want to buy S&W-level knives anymore, but I can understand that what I want is not what is right for everyone else, and that people that like S&W are not wrong.
I never said it is snobby to want something quality.
I said it is snobby to not be able to understand that what is below your standard might be fine for someone else, and thus it is silly to say that any given knife is worthless junk and a waste of anyone's money.
It would be snobby so say that NO ONE should buy the inferior mustard because it isn't good enough for *YOU*, or the one your prefer. Some people may prefer the other mustard. But for you to want/get the product you prefer is not snobby, and I never said it was.
It is snobby when someone asks about a certain knife, and people with higher standards say the knife is totally useless and that they should buy real knives instead. They don't understand that the given knife might be fine for that person and it might even be more what they want than a more expensive knife.
Everyone has different standards and opinions. I know people that are very happy with their no-name-brand knives and don't understand why I spend more than 3 dollars on a knife. Some of them can't even tell the quality difference. Some of them prefer cheap knives because they can't bring themselves to carrying a more expensive one.
If you feel there is no S&W knife that is good enough for it's price to consider buying, that is fine. I never said that makes you a snob. But not everyone prefers a Byrd and Red Class BM to an S&W. Yes, SOME ACTUALLY PREFER S&W! Which knife is better is a matter of taste. So you have to understand that your opinion is not a fact, and that not everyone wants the same things in a knife that you want.
Snobbery doesn't mean disagreeing with someone or wanting quality. Snobbery means not being able to understand that your opinion is just an opinion and that other people have different opinions, wants, and needs.
I want quality. I bought a Sebenza not too long ago. It was my first knife of that level, and it won't be my last. But I would be a snob to think that anyone with a lesser knife is an idiot, or that they made a mistake. I would be a snob to tell someone to throw away their crappy S&W and buy a Sebenza. I don't want to buy S&W-level knives anymore, but I can understand that what I want is not what is right for everyone else, and that people that like S&W are not wrong.
Hair -
Very well said. Are you an English teacher by chance?
I use some "cheap" folders just because they feel so good in my hand. Sure I have to lube them and sharpen them more often than some others but I use them as cutting tools not screwdrivers or crowbars and they function fine.
Very well said. Are you an English teacher by chance?
I use some "cheap" folders just because they feel so good in my hand. Sure I have to lube them and sharpen them more often than some others but I use them as cutting tools not screwdrivers or crowbars and they function fine.
Me an English teacher? That's unpossible!
Planterz only misunderstood me because my first post was hard to understand. I didn't mean that thinking a given knife was a waste of money made someone a snob. I meant that thinking a knife is a waste of other people's money makes someone a snob.
I.e., a Ferrari (Sebenza) owner thinking a Hyundai (S&W) buyer is making is mistake is a snob. Likewise, a Hyundai (S&W) owner thinking a Ferrari (Sebenza) buyer is wasting his money is also a snob.
My first post didn't make that clear. A Ferrari buyer not wanting to buy a Hyundai is not a snob.
Planterz only misunderstood me because my first post was hard to understand. I didn't mean that thinking a given knife was a waste of money made someone a snob. I meant that thinking a knife is a waste of other people's money makes someone a snob.
I.e., a Ferrari (Sebenza) owner thinking a Hyundai (S&W) buyer is making is mistake is a snob. Likewise, a Hyundai (S&W) owner thinking a Ferrari (Sebenza) buyer is wasting his money is also a snob.
My first post didn't make that clear. A Ferrari buyer not wanting to buy a Hyundai is not a snob.
A friend gave me his S&W SWAT after he broke off the tip. He used it as an EDC for almost a year, and it held up well. It was the first knife I reprofiled usind a wet wheel, and it turned out fine. After practicing on the S&W, I did it to a BM monochrome with a chip. Not nearly as easy taking off steel (I know- different steel types, N690 VS 440?). Anyway, The blade on this one says: (In a round pattern, top first)
PERFORMANCE
R.O.C. - 440
So, it's 440 steel. Does this mean 440a, 440c, or is there a plain 440? I do know it feels softer than almost any other brand name knife I have. As someone else said, It doesn't have a good 'feel' on a crock stick. Feels sort of like it's taking off lots of steel, with no steel feedback, just 'mush'
PERFORMANCE
R.O.C. - 440
So, it's 440 steel. Does this mean 440a, 440c, or is there a plain 440? I do know it feels softer than almost any other brand name knife I have. As someone else said, It doesn't have a good 'feel' on a crock stick. Feels sort of like it's taking off lots of steel, with no steel feedback, just 'mush'
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2001
- Messages
- 18,423
Most times if a lower costing import jsut says "440" it will be "440A".
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 2,027
I don't support a company that steals and makes poor quality knives. If you are satisfied in the product, then you must me the 1 in a 1000 that isn't willing to pay $10 for a proven brand. I wouldn't trust the liner lock in that thing if that is what it has.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2001
- Messages
- 18,423
deathshead said:
Just curious, what "proven brand" do you buy for $10.00?
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
Hair, you make some good points, but I respectfully believe that you overtstate your case.
Your conclusion seems to assume that there are no objective characteristics involved. But some blades, objectively, hold an edge better in the same application than another blade. Some locks will hold more pounds of static force than other locks. Some locks will resist more dynamic force than other locks. Some blades corrode where another does not. There are cases where a knife is a far superior value on the basis of such characteristics than another knife at the same price point.
If the buyer cares. As you suggest, he may not care -- or even understand. It may be the flashy look that sells. After all, heat-treatment cannot be seen, only experienced.
Your conclusion seems to assume that there are no objective characteristics involved. But some blades, objectively, hold an edge better in the same application than another blade. Some locks will hold more pounds of static force than other locks. Some locks will resist more dynamic force than other locks. Some blades corrode where another does not. There are cases where a knife is a far superior value on the basis of such characteristics than another knife at the same price point.
If the buyer cares. As you suggest, he may not care -- or even understand. It may be the flashy look that sells. After all, heat-treatment cannot be seen, only experienced.
That is my point Thomas.
Of course not all knives are created equal. There are obviously objective criteria. But not everyone is a very demanding knife user. And even to demanding users, totally subjective criteria such as looks and feel are very important.
My point is that the importance of the objective criteria is actually subjective, and that when you factor in the truely subjective criteria, what is junk to you may be just right to another. To some people, looks may be all that matters.
I am just advocating open-mindedness when considering other people's knife-buying decisions.
I am all for suggesting one knife over another. I do it myself. What I do not like is when someone's decision is made fun of, or their opinion/taste is insulted. There is a difference between trying to educate someone or trying to give them input and trying to pressure them into liking what you like by using insults and "your knife isn't a real knife" BS.
S&W may be junk to you, but not everyone can even notice the different between S&W and a good knife. Not everyone cares. Even if another knife wins in every objective category and is the same price as a given S&W knife, maybe it doesn't look or feel as good as the S&W in the opinion of a certain buyer.
To someone that only uses their knife once every 8 months to do some simple thing like cut a piece of tape, heat treat and lock strength aren't big issues. But looks might be a main concern. To them, a junk knife with a certain look may be "right", while the objectively better knife at the same price would be a big mistake.
And of course, I am not aiming the "you" at you. I am not accusing you of any of this, or anyone here.
But a lot of people here do not understand of incredibly different the wants and needs of people are when it comes to knives. And a lot of people here do not understand how incredibly happy some people are with knives that you and I might consider trash. Happier, even, than they would be with knives we consider treasure.
Of course not all knives are created equal. There are obviously objective criteria. But not everyone is a very demanding knife user. And even to demanding users, totally subjective criteria such as looks and feel are very important.
My point is that the importance of the objective criteria is actually subjective, and that when you factor in the truely subjective criteria, what is junk to you may be just right to another. To some people, looks may be all that matters.
I am just advocating open-mindedness when considering other people's knife-buying decisions.
I am all for suggesting one knife over another. I do it myself. What I do not like is when someone's decision is made fun of, or their opinion/taste is insulted. There is a difference between trying to educate someone or trying to give them input and trying to pressure them into liking what you like by using insults and "your knife isn't a real knife" BS.
S&W may be junk to you, but not everyone can even notice the different between S&W and a good knife. Not everyone cares. Even if another knife wins in every objective category and is the same price as a given S&W knife, maybe it doesn't look or feel as good as the S&W in the opinion of a certain buyer.
To someone that only uses their knife once every 8 months to do some simple thing like cut a piece of tape, heat treat and lock strength aren't big issues. But looks might be a main concern. To them, a junk knife with a certain look may be "right", while the objectively better knife at the same price would be a big mistake.
And of course, I am not aiming the "you" at you. I am not accusing you of any of this, or anyone here.
But a lot of people here do not understand of incredibly different the wants and needs of people are when it comes to knives. And a lot of people here do not understand how incredibly happy some people are with knives that you and I might consider trash. Happier, even, than they would be with knives we consider treasure.
I have what appears to be a S&W clip-point version of the Al-Mar Sere 2000. I've had a lot of trouble with the torx head screws stripping as well, but other than that I don't have any complaints about the knife. It doesn't strike me as particularly inferior in any noticeable way.
Of course, there's a big difference between saying "I have no real complaints" and saying "I like this knife". I guess I'm sort of indifferent to it. If I hadn't been completely ripped off when I bought it, I might even like it.
(This is comparing it to Byrd Meadowlark and a SOG flash II)
Of course, there's a big difference between saying "I have no real complaints" and saying "I like this knife". I guess I'm sort of indifferent to it. If I hadn't been completely ripped off when I bought it, I might even like it.
(This is comparing it to Byrd Meadowlark and a SOG flash II)