smooth vs. teeth

L

laea7777

Joined
Dec 16, 2010
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Hello everyone. I am a novice survivalist and hunter looking for a knife to go in a Bug Out Bag that I'm putting together that would also be appropriate for camping, backpacking, hunting, bushcraft and general use.

I had been looking at knives such as the Ontario RAT 5, the ESEE 5, the Blind Horse Pathfinder Logo knife, the Tops Pathfinder School knife and the Ka-Bar Becker Companion, but I'm now I'm leaning towards the Grayman Ground Pounder.

My question to all of you is - which would be preferable, the smooth version or the version with teeth? None of the other knives I was considering have a sawtooth back, but now I'm thinking it might be nice for moderate sawing and notching. My concern is that the teeth may a) snag on the sheath when drawing the knife; b) weaken the overall structure if using the knife for prying; and c) decrease the knife's potential stabbing capability.

I do have a folding saw already, but there may be times when the knife will be the only cutting tool I will be carrying.

Any thoughts will be much appreciated.
 
Welcome to the Forum! Unless you find yourself having to cut fibrous vines, you will be far better served with a plain edge.
 
Not a fan of saw-back knives.
The kerf of the teeth usually isn't wide enough to use as an actual saw. This is the main problem with sawbacks.
They work for notching, but this can be done uquicker and with more control by using the edge.

The teeth also chew up batons real bad. Batoning when done right is a much easier, way to split and cut wood than sawing with a knife.
 
laea7777 said:
Hello everyone. I am a novice survivalist ...

My question to all of you is - which would be preferable, the smooth version or the version with teeth? None of the other knives I was considering have a sawtooth back, but now I'm thinking it might be nice for moderate sawing and notching. My concern is that the teeth may a) snag on the sheath when drawing the knife; b) weaken the overall structure if using the knife for prying; and c) decrease the knife's potential stabbing capability.

I do have a folding saw already, but there may be times when the knife will be the only cutting tool I will be carrying.

Any thoughts will be much appreciated.
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Welcome.

Skip the sawback. Its for show. Carry the folding saw. They work.

Off-immediate-topic advice/questions:

1) Why would there "...be times when knife will be the only cutting tool I will be carrying." Going out with just one knife is going out poorly prepared for survival.
2) Why would you be using your "survival" knife for prying? That is risking breaking your most inmportant survival tool on a task that could easily be accomplished by something else.
3) Why are you worried about the knife's "...potential stabbing capability..."? What are you planning on stabbing?
 
i like a lot of options on my tools but a saw back isn't one of them .... i look at it this way

You would most likely saw something with a relatively small diameter right? So in that case why not just chop it? probably faster and less energy exerted anyway............. im in the same boat your in, looking for a general use knife and im leaning towards the ESEE junglas and a multi tool only because i think in a survival situation with just a knife your gonna want a dedicated chopper first and foremost. the multi tool can cut up whatever meat you catch if need be
 
wmc1982 said:
plain edge all the way, unless you are cutting rope all day.
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I think the question is "sawback vs. no sawback,", not "serration vs. plain edge."

Though I'm with you on the plain edge, even if I'm cutting rope all day.
 
marcinek said:
I think the question is "sawback vs. no sawback,", not "serration vs. plain edge."

Though I'm with you on the plain edge, even if I'm cutting rope all day.
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Ahhh...it is amazing what I learn when I read a post correctly. :o

So, sawback? Not worth the powder to blow it to hell, IMO. Hard to clean, hard to use and hard to find a legitimate reason why a 'woodsman' with a saw would ever want one.
 
You'll be better off with a folding saw any day of the week. You can get them at a very low weight and fold to a compact size and they actually work. I go with the Kershaw folding saw right now that comes in at 6 oz and will cut extremely well.

I even found the saws on multitools and SAKs much more effective than the ones typically found on a knife blade, unless you are willing to pump hundreds and hundreds of dollars into your knife. You'll be much better off going with a straight edge chopper and main work knife and something like a SAK in my opinion with a little saw and other tools on it. You just loose too much strength and batoning ability with a sawback blade.
 
A.P.F. said:
Ahhh...it is amazing what I learn when I read a post correctly. :o

So, sawback? Not worth the powder to blow it to hell, IMO. Hard to clean, hard to use and hard to find a legitimate reason why a 'woodsman' with a saw would ever want one.
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Another thing about sawbacks.

It's incredibly rare that the handle on a sawback knife is designed in a way that one can use the sawback...unless one is sawing "up." And that's just silly. :rolleyes:
 
What do you plan on stabbing and prying on? I don't do either with a knife, and they seem like conflicting knife traits. For stabbing I'd like something long thin, maybe double edged, but for prying, I'd want thick and wide. Just my thoughts.

You can make a spear, from wood, hardened with fire. You can make a prying tool from wood also. Both of those can be make with your basic knife.
 
foxx said:
What do you plan on stabbing and prying on? I don't do either with a knife, and they seem like conflicting knife traits. For stabbing I'd like something long thin, maybe double edged, but for prying, I'd want thick and wide. Just my thoughts.

You can make a spear, from wood, hardened with fire. You can make a prying tool from wood also. Both of those can be make with your basic knife.
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I have been waiting a long time to hear from someone that advocates using a knife to build tools. Even batoning can be done with a hardwood wedge when the cut is started with a knife. Kudos, Foxx!
 
A.P.F. said:
I have been waiting a long time to hear from someone that advocates using a knife to build tools. Even batoning can be done with a hardwood wedge when the cut is started with a knife. Kudos, Foxx!
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And that right there is what sets us apart from the monkeys. Apes have been known to use simple tools all the time, but have never been known to make their own. :D

Using a wooden wedge to split wood instead of a knife is something I've read about in several books. To me, it makes way more sense than using a knife alone, and seems a lot less abusive. Strange to see it mentioned so seldom... :thumbup:
 
for the price of that ground pounder i would get a becker companion bk2 and a becker combat bowie bk9 and youll still have enough for a cheap folding saw
 
Best bet is to pack a solid plain edge and the folding saw.

BTW, WELCOME!
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Thanks for the all the quick responses.

First, I want to make it clear that I've already decided that I want a plain, not a serrated edge, mainly because it's much easier to sharpen. This discussion is about whether or not the knife should have sawteeth on the spine.

Second of all, I wholeheartedly admit that I have very limited experience and knowledge. Most of my ideas about what to look for in a knife come from what I've read or viewed on the internet from people like Dave Canterbury, Mike Grayman (Grayman Knives), Nutnfancy, and Ryan Johnson (RMJ Tactical).

Dave Canterbury, Mike Grayman and Ryan Johnson all seem to agree, either based on their own experience or based on what their military or law enforcement clientel have requested, that a knife sometimes ends up being used as a pry bar. That's not its primary intended purpose, but sometimes it's just what you've got handy at the time.

As far as stabbing, I honestly don't think it's farfetched to imagine that a general purpose knife could he used defensively against a hog, a cougar, a bear or a two legged animal. A 2" wide, 1/4" thick, single edged blade is not ideal for use in a stabbing motion, but I think one with a smooth spine is better than one with a sawtooth spine. On the Grayman Knives website, there's a review of the Ground Pounder with sawteeth; part of it tests stabbing capability; indeed, it seems to stop penetrating at the point where the teeth start.

However, in the same review, he saws through a 2x4". So... there's always a trade off.

I have the Bahco Laplander - fairly inexpensive, very light, good steel, solid construction and gnarly teeth. I like it a lot so far. But, if having a saw on my knife meant not having to carry one more thing, that would be nice.

Regarding the why not chop what you can saw question, the only answer I can think of is stealth. Imagine that you're building a blind. Sawing instead of chopping would alert less animals in your vicinity to your presence.

Granted, this is all very hypothetical.

So far, I've got my Laplander in my backpack and I'm leaning towards the smooth spine knife.

As for the teeth being for show, I personally much prefer the look of the smooth spine, but I'm trying to keep from having that be the determing factor.

Thanks again for the active discussion.
 
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