Snake Identification

Definitely looks to be a Western variety of the Cottonmouth. Eastern/Florida Cottonmouth generally have more pronounced banding in juveniles and adults are typically almost black.
 
Fubarski said:
Brown-banded water snake. Non-poisonous. Commonly mistaken for water moccasin, which is a good thing, cause it keeps people from killin em.

Way to tell the difference bet BBWS and Moc is: Moc is JET BLACK on top. No brown.

And when in motion at a distance, the Moc's body will mostly be out of the water, while the BBWS's will be underwater with the head above.

The BBWS also has white inside the mouth, as do most snakes, so that doesn't mean anything (if you looked).

Nice pic.

Dave
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Please allow me to disagree.
they don't have brown water snakes in Tulsa. They don't have brown banded watersnakes hardly anywhere because they are a hybrid of brown waters and banded waters and kind of rare. There are brown water snakes, and banded water snakes, but you probably won't find a hybrid around OK or anywhere but FLA.

and Juvenile cottonmouths have striking (haha pun!) patterns along with the venom:
cottonmouth03.jpg


1636330355_1c68e0a87e.jpg


Like the copperhead, this Agkistrodon (basically copperheads and cottonmouths) have a green tail as a young'n


Its a very dark Northern Water Snake

The pattern near the tail is broken.

It is not a cottonmouth.
Just call 'em cottonmouths otherwise you'll have folks calling them copperheaded moccasins etc. They are venomous, as you are injected by 'em, not poisoned by eating them :) You can be poisoned by a mushroom, or by ingesting lighter fluid, but you can be envenomated by a spider.
Out of all the snakes I've come across, the cottonmouth is the least aggressive and most "dramatic", gaping and hissing, however, rarely striking.


NERD MODE OFF.

back to beer.
 
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Joezilla said:
Out of all the snakes I've come across, the cottonmouth is the least aggressive and most "dramatic", gaping and hissing, however, rarely striking.

OK, nerd rant over.
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Wow, really? While studying in the SouthEast, Mocs/Cottonmouths were by for the most aggressive I encountered. Enough to chase off dogs and cats, let alone people.

I'm still not sure what it is without more telling pictures. But, if it is a Moc, it is a Western.
 
otis williams said:
if a snake's playing dead, it's to get you to leave it alone.
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I know that Hognose snakes will play dead for you to leave it alone but not about other snakes. The one in the pic is not a hognose for sure.

What I had heard was the moccasin would play dead to lure in rodents and other small scavengers. NO facts to back this up, just folk lore
 
Ok, firstly it's in a zoo so location means nothing in this instance.

Secondly, I have never seen a poisonous snake that had such a pointed tail. In fact that has always been one of the indicators I was taught to look for to identify poisonous snakes, they have blunt tails. I can't see the head well enough in the picture to tell anything about it but judging from the tail and the color I would say it's not a moccasin.

JMO
David
 
These snake threads can be painful to folks who know snakes. Snakes do NOT "attack" people. The "defensive" actions of snakes can appear to be aggressive and that's the point, they are trying to scare you so they won't be attacked.
 
Echo4v said:
Ok, firstly it's in a zoo so location means nothing in this instance.

Secondly, I have never seen a poisonous snake that had such a pointed tail. In fact that has always been one of the indicators I was taught to look for to identify poisonous snakes, they have blunt tails. I can't see the head well enough in the picture to tell anything about it but judging from the tail and the color I would say it's not a moccasin.

JMO
David
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This is in a zoo but it's not in an enclosed stocked exibit. It's a natural habitat exibit open to the Tulsa environment so I assume that it's a local variety...could be wrong though. What I am getting from this is that it's tough to ID snakes so give them all plenty of room.
 
Lycosa said:
These snake threads can be painful to folks who know snakes. Snakes do NOT "attack" people. The "defensive" actions of snakes can appear to be aggressive and that's the point, they are trying to scare you so they won't be attacked.
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I don't want to get too sideways on someone elses thread, but I have to disagree with snakes not attacking. They have personalities much like other creatures, and every once in a while, one is mean. I had a 9' Reticulate Python that was an escape artist, and he would attack at any given chance. This is only one of many examples I can give from my own experience and others I have worked with in the field and zoos in Seattle and New Orleans. Larger Pythons are widely known to attack aggressively often. Not all animals attack because they are "defensive". Plenty attacks happen because of a natural (but for some, inexpicable) sense of aggression not totally related to hunger or defense. Much like people.

As another poster came away with. Snakes are hard to identify by pics alone. If in doubt, give them a wide berth.:thumbup:
 
When I got into outdoor education more than 20 years ago I lived on a nature preserve that was open to the public. Now, there are no venomous snakes on this preserve or in that region. But I lost track of all the times that I came across screaming groups of people in our woods, and guys holding a big stick ready to smash any and all snakes they saw. Often the snakes would just be basking in the sun near/on the trail and the people refused to just walk around them.
I would stop the guys and they would literally SCREAM at me “YOU IDIOT! That’s a rattler!” (It was a black rat snake.) and “That’s a COTTONMOUTH water moccasin, FOOL!” (It’s a northern water snake.)
*I would suggest to anyone who is seriously interested in knowing what venomous snakes are in your AO – please go get a current Herp/snake field guide for your region. And carry it with you outdoors.
DO NOT simply go to your local nature center and expect to find knowledgeable people when you walk in the door. Most working there are seasonal interns or volunteers who know next to nothing. Nature center employees will often pretend to know the entire world – I know, I worked with them for years…
You need to find a wildlife biologist who knows your region and knows his shit.

Personally, I like snakes a lot, have moved them off the highways all across this country, including venomous ones. And my experience is that cottonmouths are a really UGLY looking snake in appearance. The ones I’ve seen look more like a short body builders forearm – short, chunky and just plain ugly. (No offense to any body builders…)

I don’t watch much TV, but a couple years ago I happened to catch an episode of that biologist guy on cable TV that goes looking for big snakes/reptiles, and puts on a croc suit, etc – “Dr. Brady” something? Anyway, he did this whole segment on cottonmouth water moccasins and their rep for being aggressive.
He rigged up a device that mimicked a human leg – including pants leg, sock and a boot covered foot. And he basically found the cottonmouths and stuck this thing right in their faces. And what he showed repeatedly on camera and what he said that his findings were completely disputed the folk reputation that they are aggressive and go after us. FWIW…
I have been outdoors in 40 states and can count the times I have come across venomous snakes on two hands. Including living in south Florida and spending days and days tramping around the Glades. I do agree that they are like us – with different personalities I picked up dozens of black rats when I was young and stupid, only a couple nailed the shit outta me…
But water snakes are aggressive as hell – IN THE HAND.
Like a herpetologist friend told me a long ago – “99% of snakebites in this country are self-inflicted.” So just let them be, boys…
My remarks here are in reference to WILD native USA snakes – not pets, introduced species or zoos. FWIW…
 
I agree 100% Sawgrass.

I'm no expert, but I can identify every snake in my area. I have handled many of them.

When I was stationed in Florida, and fished the waters there, I encountered many Cotton Mouths. They never were aggressive, most of the time they just swam away...

Northern Water snakes are just mean! The one I am holding in that pic, I found yesterday. It held its ground and defended itself like it was territorial. It continually struck, and took me awhile to subdue it.

I find the bigger they are, the darker in color they get. They also seam more aggressive when older... Thats about the only species of snake I've held that won't calm down after being handled.

I only handled 1 poisonus snake. It was a lil baby Coral that was trapped in a coke bottle. Never tried to bite me as he layed in the palm of my gloved hand.
 
sawgrass7 said:
When I got into outdoor education more than 20 years ago I lived on a nature preserve that was open to the public. Now, there are no venomous snakes on this preserve or in that region. But I lost track of all the times that I came across screaming groups of people in our woods, and guys holding a big stick ready to smash any and all snakes they saw. Often the snakes would just be basking in the sun near/on the trail and the people refused to just walk around them.
I would stop the guys and they would literally SCREAM at me “YOU IDIOT! That’s a rattler!” (It was a black rat snake.) and “That’s a COTTONMOUTH water moccasin, FOOL!” (It’s a northern water snake.)
*I would suggest to anyone who is seriously interested in knowing what venomous snakes are in your AO – please go get a current Herp/snake field guide for your region. And carry it with you outdoors.
DO NOT simply go to your local nature center and expect to find knowledgeable people when you walk in the door. Most working there are seasonal interns or volunteers who know next to nothing. Nature center employees will often pretend to know the entire world – I know, I worked with them for years…
You need to find a wildlife biologist who knows your region and knows his shit.

Personally, I like snakes a lot, have moved them off the highways all across this country, including venomous ones. And my experience is that cottonmouths are a really UGLY looking snake in appearance. The ones I’ve seen look more like a short body builders forearm – short, chunky and just plain ugly. (No offense to any body builders…)

I don’t watch much TV, but a couple years ago I happened to catch an episode of that biologist guy on cable TV that goes looking for big snakes/reptiles, and puts on a croc suit, etc – “Dr. Brady” something? Anyway, he did this whole segment on cottonmouth water moccasins and their rep for being aggressive.
He rigged up a device that mimicked a human leg – including pants leg, sock and a boot covered foot. And he basically found the cottonmouths and stuck this thing right in their faces. And what he showed repeatedly on camera and what he said that his findings were completely disputed the folk reputation that they are aggressive and go after us. FWIW…
I have been outdoors in 40 states and can count the times I have come across venomous snakes on two hands. Including living in south Florida and spending days and days tramping around the Glades. I do agree that they are like us – with different personalities I picked up dozens of black rats when I was young and stupid, only a couple nailed the shit outta me…
But water snakes are aggressive as hell – IN THE HAND.
Like a herpetologist friend told me a long ago – “99% of snakebites in this country are self-inflicted.” So just let them be, boys…
My remarks here are in reference to WILD native USA snakes – not pets, introduced species or zoos. FWIW…
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Awesome post! Seems that there are a lot of differing experiences out there. Your remark about the Water snakes reminded me of how the kids around where I lived in Mississippi used to say that the Racers woulds chase them out of a nearby field. I was more than doubtful, that is until I finally went down there with them. For some reason (I never came to understand completely) when we would cross the ditch into the mentioned field, one of several Black Racers would chase the kids. I mean literally come after them. It was absolutely hilarious. Nobody was ever bitten to my knowledge.
 
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regaurding cottonmouth's PMS.

I'll post a video up once I get a chance, but I have to be good and finish an article or (THE) Tim Stetzer will choke me
 
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