Snare-Trap-Survive dot com

[DOC-CANADA]

And if it's good enough for coote, it's good enough for me! :thumbup:

Doc

 

[GPB]

I don't think we're disagreeing. I think we are just anticipating different needs or our preparation is different. One of my most favourite topics is expedient trap triggers and my buds and I spend time with them. Where we do disagree is about cordage not being reusable. Cordage is the ultimate reusable outdoor resource, if you know how to make cordage.

Agreed re; not really disagreeing. I would like to see some of of your expedient trap triggers.

Think about early peoples - they didn't have Conibears, but they survived quite handily. If I was in a situation that I needed traps, would I prefer Conibears to cordage on a one to one basis - of course, but as a survival preparation, in a pack, they are weight prohibitive. It all depends on your need. My hope would be to never need them.

This would take me too long.....early peoples methods were different, population far less, game more prolific....nevermind. 5-7 lbs of #110's in my pack isn't too cumbersome to me, but others may be different. Everyone's hope would be never to need any of this gear to survive.

My buddy, Slasher has been snaring rabbits for the last 50 odd years (out of necessity, originally). Slasher is from Newfoundland and his rabbit snaring (and his brothers') helped to keep the family fed. He and his brothers still go snaring once a year. BTW, he doesn't like single strand wire, but uses picture wire. He says that single strand wire is adversely affected during weather where it is below freezing at night and above freezing during the day. It makes it brittle or something.

Makes sense that he uses "picture wire", not "cordage".

You have other problems, granted, but not insurmountable, and, food is not an immediated priority, in any case, shelter is. And if you're canoeing, the weather probably isn't at its most severe. And as far as depending on them exclusively, of course not. There's also deadfalls, throwing sticks, atlatls, expedient bows, etc.

Staying on topic (snares vs shelter, canoeing, going over falls).....correct, I think you now understand. I am not against "snares". As stated before learning more about snaring was the goal, but Bruce (a very educated snaring and trapping pro) wanted me to understand the value of a few #110's in the pack versus..."more snares". Snares are in the load, no question. Tactic diversification pays dividends in all types of quarry hunting.

There's the difference - wilderness survival and primitive skills are my obsession and what I devote my time to.

The difference is spare time (scope of one's responsibilities), and opinion re; what cordage is truly "effective" versus fantasy for "snaring" as opposed to making deadfalls, etc.

As said earlier, this is my take, YMMV, and that's what makes it interesting.

Absolutely, exchange, dialogue and education is why we come here.

Doc

 

[ROCK6]

Intentional????

Doc

You have too much time on your hands Doc I should have caveated with "pun intended"

After spending awhile updating my indexing of magazines, I finally found the article in Self Reliance magazine (formerly American Survival Guide) January 2001, Volume 23, #1, page 48. BTW, a quote by Bruce, "Someone with good snares, properly trained in trapping and snaring techniques, can out perform any hunter alive." so Bruce isn't completely against snares, in fact, as I recall, I bought snares off him.

I too agree that snare/traps are passive and much more effective for providing food yet allowing the individual to perform other tasks.

It's funny you mention ASG and Self Reliance...my wife was unpacking all the books, magazines, etc. and found about two dozen of those old magazines. I'll need to go back through them:thumbup:

ROCK6

 

[ROCK6]

Agreed re; not really disagreeing. I would like to see some of of your expedient trap triggers.

Staying on topic (snares vs. shelter, canoeing, going over falls) right, I think you now understand. I am not against "snares". As stated before learning more about snaring was the goal, but Bruce (a very educated snaring and trapping pro) wanted me to understand the value of a few #110's versus snares. Tactic diversification pays dividends in all types of quarry hunting.

There are advantages and disadvantages to snares, traps - both improvised and commercial. Just like discussing knives, the sharpest tool in the tool-box is what's between your ears. IMHO the most important part of snaring or trapping is the identification of the surrounding area; game runs, hides, burrows, water sources, scat, tracks, etc. Conibears are the fastest to employ and more effective than snares in my experience, but that doesn't mean they're better. They are more cumbersome and you should “size” the Conibears to the game your trapping...too big and it could shatter the bones into the meat...too small and you may just find a mangled leg. Using top commercial traps compared to improvised natural traps (figure-four, deadfalls, pits, etc) is a slippery slope. I think anybody who is serious about the outdoors should practice their primitive skills...including trapping. Even if I only had a 4-6 Conibears traps in my pack, if I found a better spot to use a snare or even make a deadfall, why not? Increasing your odds and conserving energy through multi-tasking are key aspects. As much as I like the Conibears 110, snares are a lot easy/smaller to pack in quantity. They do take a little more time to scout for areas to use, and they take a little more care to emplace, but I can carry a dozen snares in the room it takes up for two Conibears. I guess it depends on exactly what you plan to do, skill level with the devices (I'm actually not that good at snares and need more practice) and of course your area.

Good post and it's still good to see Buckshot/Bruce back up and running:thumbup:

ROCK6

 

[g123]

Hey Guys,

I took trapping lessons from Bruce and like you say he really knows his stuff and is a great guy!

When I talked to Bruce in detail about this subject as it applied to a BOB, he liked both. If you cut the chains off the #110's, they weight 2 pound per every three you pack. To increase the odds, I make dead falls after I would set the 3 #110's.

He agreed the #220's start adding too much weight since they weigh 2.5 pound each. That's where the snares came in. You can carry a lot of snares and really increase your chances for coon's and other medium size animals with medium snares since you can set so many different locations at once.

He also recommended carrying 6 large cam lock snares. You can be at 6 locations at once and be a lot more productive 24/7.

If you have food and are not in a BOB situation or not needing to be mobile, I think the primitive methods can work and can be fun. For a BOB where you need to be mobile, I would bring 3 #100’s, 12 medium and 6 large snares (Total weight of all 3 is 4 pounds). It’s nice to have traps that are ready to go when on the move. Also, any serious wilderness guy should get to know how to do a few different types of cord snares or deadfalls. They do work, but take time to make up.

This is just my opinion and it works for me.

Thanks,

Geoff

 

[GPB]

Hey Guys,

I took trapping lessons from Bruce and like you say he really knows his stuff and is a great guy!

When I talked to Bruce in detail about this subject as it applied to a BOB, he liked both. If you cut the chains off the #110's, they weight 2 pound per every three you pack. To increase the odds, I make dead falls after I would set the 3 #110's.

He agreed the #220's start adding too much weight since they weigh 2.5 pound each. That's where the snares came in. You can carry a lot of snares and really increase your chances for coon's and other medium size animals with medium snares since you can set so many different locations at once.

He also recommended carrying 6 large cam lock snares. You can be at 6 locations at once and be a lot more productive 24/7.

If you have food and are not in a BOB situation or not needing to be mobile, I think the primitive methods can work and can be fun. For a BOB where you need to be mobile, I would bring 3 #100’s, 12 medium and 6 large snares (Total weight of all 3 is 4 pounds). It’s nice to have traps that are ready to go when on the move. Also, any serious wilderness guy should get to know how to do a few different types of cord snares or deadfalls. They do work, but take time to make up.

This is just my opinion and it works for me.

Thanks,

Geoff

Thanks Geoff, that is EXACTLY my point. In an emergency situation with the BOB, I want snares, but 3-6 110's in the pack will keep me fed repeatedly and reliably with no kink, twist, or break rebuilds (no question) when used and deployed effectively.

Bottom line; Conibear 110's will work continuously, snares need more care and feeding but snares are definitley part of the kit too. Cordage static snare's, uhm....., but for deadfall links and dynamic snaring, great. Great feedback and wisdom in all the post's here. Glad to see there are folks here that recognize the need.

Doc,

I still want to see your primitive trigger sets as that is the next phase of my education. I get to Ontario a fair bit up the 401 for work. Would be great to have a Horton's and check out some primitive sets with which you have had good results. Drop me a PM if your up for working that out sometime.

 

[coote]

It can be much quicker to set a wire snare because they generally stay 'open' by themselves. Plain cordage snares take a bit more time to set because you have to tie or prop them to make them stay open. Here's how I might use plain synthetic cord for a snare:

So if you have limited time for setting snares, then wire might be the way to go. They are also very strong and are unlikely to be chewed through. However they are easily kinked and mangled so you might only get to catch one or two animals in some of them before they are too twisted and broken to use.

A steel trap can be used over and over again, and you might also be able to use a cord snare over and over. And plain cord doesn't look like a snare, and as far as I know it is never illegal to carry cord.

I think too, that in some cases a steel leg trap might be easier to set and disguise when it comes to catching certain cunning critters. The ability to make your set virtually invisible is also good if you don't want other human passers-by to see what you are up to.

Rather than equipment, the main thing needed is knowledge. If you can understand the animal and the environment you are better equipped to figure out how to catch it. If you could get a knowledge transplant from Bruce you'd be fairly likely to be a very successful trapper.

 

[DOC-CANADA]

You have too much time on your hands Doc I should have caveated with "pun intended" ROCK6

I was home sick, Rock, so I spent too much time playing here, yesterday .

Doc,

I still want to see your primitive trigger sets as that is the next phase of my education. I get to Ontario a fair bit up the 401 for work. Would be great to have a Horton's and check out some primitive sets with which you have had good results. Drop me a PM if your up for working that out sometime.

Sounds good, although the 401 is a bit of a hike from here.

RE: primitive sets, check here and here.

And then, of course, there are the old stand-bys like the L7 (named after how it looks).

Re: "with which you have had good results", any snares other than 22 and 24 gauge copper or brass wire are illegal in Ontario. Other than learning how to set the snares (lifting pole, etc.), we have never used them for snaring.

Doc

BTW, here is a book called, "Camp Life in the Woods and the Tricks of Trapping and Trap Making" that is a free download. You might find it interesting.

 

[GPB]

I was home sick, Rock, so I spent too much time playing here, yesterday .

Sounds good, although the 401 is a bit of a hike from here.

I get to Oshawa, Brampton, Ingersoll, Oakville and West back to Windsor. You can guess the industry with those locations.

Still not convinced cordage static snares are as reusable as others but the exchange is great. Kind of surprised there aren't more participants.

coote, thanks for the sketches, I snare. I was looking for more unique expedient trigger sets like Doc mentioned he and his pals create.

 

[coote]

The picture of the baited snare at the bottom of the sketches showed the makings of a spring-up snare as used by the Polynesians I believe.... although it is similar to other spring-up triggers that I've seen from elsewhere.

Here is a diagram showing the San Bushman bird trap. This, too, is a spring up. I like it because there is less work to do making a barrier to make sure that the critter goes through the noose to get at the bait. The noose is laid horizontally in this set-up:

 

[DOC-CANADA]

I get to Oshawa, Brampton, Ingersoll, Oakville and West back to Windsor. You can guess the industry with those locations.

Still not convinced cordage static snares are as reusable as others but the exchange is great. Kind of surprised there aren't more participants.

coote, thanks for the sketches, I snare. I was looking for more unique expedient trigger stay tuned sets like Doc mentioned he and his pals create.

Hey GPB, Oakville's pretty close, in fact, some days I work out almost to Oakville.

I'm not saying to use static cordage snares. Static cordage snares would get chewed up pretty quickly. They would be used with a lifting pole or other dynamic device. They are reusable because if torn up, you take them apart and re-cord them.


Doc

 

[GPB]

Hey GPB, Oakville's pretty close, in fact, some days I work out almost to Oakville.

Excellent, I'll send you an e-mail so we can keep in touch and let you know my next trip to Oakville (F-Plant).

I'm not saying to use static cordage snares. Static cordage snares would get chewed up pretty quickly. They would be used with a lifting pole or other dynamic device. They are reusable because if torn up, you take them apart and re-cord them.

Doc

Right, I'm with you. I figured that is what you meant but glad you clarified cordage better for dynamic. I asked Bruce about it tonight and his reponse was basically how much you reduce your target(s) to rabbits and you can't survive merely on rabbits. Though I don't want to speak for him, his opinion, amongst others I won't mention, was that squirrels, beavers, coons, opossum, ground hogs, deer, hogs, & black bear would chew through it, losing the catch. Before anyone misunderstands, we're talking about "survival" snaring here, snaring legality varies. He compared the two (cordage vs wire) like a BB gun vs shotgun in terms of snaring, but not re; linkage in primitive sets.

Hopefully others here will want to learn more and whether through Bruce or another pro, knowledge will propagate. I do highly recommend his equipment and DVD/written works if anyone wants to learn more about how to reliably acquire sustenance in a survival situation. If any other sources, resources, or unique experiences / successes here, share it!

Really appreciate the responses to this thread.:thumbup:

 

[coote]

I'm not convinced that all animals will always chew their way out of a cordage snare. However I've had absolutely no experience with North American mammals and I would certainly respect what Bruce has to say.

I am acquainted with one American who claims to have successfully snared several deer with paracord.

I've caught hogs, rabbits, hundreds of brushtailed possums and one feral goat in static synthetic cord snares. I have had some possums break away, or maybe chew the snare off.... but it is a very low percentage.

If you can keep a close eye on your sets and check them often, you may catch critters that might otherwise have the time to chew off the cord.

You could have some sort of a snare cord protector as shown in this thread if you think chewing will be an issue:

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/31225

If you set a static pole snare for climbing animals, chances are they will jump from the pole and hang themselves.... and thus are unlikely to chew themselves free.

If you set static cord snares on pathways then chase the animals into them, then they are more likely to be worried about you approaching them and they are less likely to have the presence of mind to think about chewing the cord that is restraining them.

Of course a spring-up snare does help to overcome any tendency to chew. The animal doesn't have to be lifted right off the ground, there just has to be enough tension to keep the snare cord taut and vertical.... the critter is going to find it hard to locate the cord and then get it in its mouth. When I set a spring-up nowadays I would always aim to just get enough lift rather than have the animal hanging helplessly until I check the trap. I have found that often snared animals will be relatively relaxed when I get to them.

I recommend using minimum 'slack' in the tether line when setting a snare. This gives the animal less movement and momentum which may lead to a breakage. I also like to tether the snare at a high point, thus maybe helping to reduce the traction the animal can get to pull with (a lower anchor is easier to pull against, a high one tends to lift the animal as it pulls). And tethering to something springy is a good idea as this reduces any shock loading of the cord.

Factory made traps are undoubtedly effective and quicker to set than many primitive traps. If you are seriously in need of fur or meat then having a few decent steel traps will be a big advantage. But primitive traps kept many of our ancestors fed, and I've had considerable success with them as well. The figure-4 deadfall is a trap that is ideal for small critters:

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Excellent, I'll send you an e-mail so we can keep in touch and let you know my next trip to Oakville (F-Plant). sounds good - my email address should be in my profile, if not.........



Right, I'm with you. I figured that is what you meant but glad you clarified cordage better for dynamic. I asked Bruce about it tonight and his reponse was basically how much you reduce your target(s) to rabbits and you can't survive merely on rabbits. Though I don't want to speak for him, his opinion, amongst others I won't mention, was that squirrels, beavers, coons, opossum, ground hogs, deer, hogs, & black bear would chew through it, losing the catch. Before anyone misunderstands, we're talking about "survival" snaring here, snaring legality varies. He compared the two (cordage vs wire) like a BB gun vs shotgun in terms of snaring, but not re; linkage in primitive sets.

Hopefully others here will want to learn more and whether through Bruce or another pro, knowledge will propagate. I do highly recommend his equipment and DVD/written works if anyone wants to learn more about how to reliably acquire sustenance in a survival situation. If any other sources, resources, or unique experiences / successes here, share it!

Really appreciate the responses to this thread.:thumbup:

You bring up an interesting point - how long before rabbit starvation becomes a problem, on an exclusively rabbit diet? Anybody know?

Remember, cordage snares work well on birds,too, including waterfowl (not to mention, stuffed rats named Pierre ). You can use powered trap triggers for set lines for fish. Also, you wouldn't limit yourself to just snares, anyway, as coote pointed out, the Fig. 4 can be an effective food getter, and the Paiute deadfall, and so on. Also Pict's Arapuca with which I caught a bird the first time I set it up and my buddy, Phil, caught a squirrel.

Ron Hood talks about snaring deer in his trap video, using 550 cord. And there's rabbit sticks, etc.............

I think, at times, this is approaching a 'what is more effective, a Conibear or a cordage snare' thread, and that's not what I'm suggesting at all. The odds of me ever being in a survival situation is almost nil. I am cautious to a fault. I could make your grandma look like Evel Knievel. However, the knowledge of different expedient traps and snares could spell the difference between life and death in certain, statistically small, extended circumstances.

Besides, I just love the mechanics of trap triggers. Especially those that can be created with just a bit of cordage and a stick or two. Probably the same way, that some guys like the purr of a Ferrari, or the click-click action on an expensive shotgun.

I'm glad, GBP, that you brought this topic up, because of my aforementioned trap trigger affection, and I know you certainly have coote's attention.

Oh, BTW, did I mention that I also make nets?

-----------------Snapping Turtle trap---------------------------------------------------------------Copy of a West Coast Cod landing net.

Doc

 

[wildmike]

Doc. Just a heads up all. Trap-snare-survive.com's prices on pre manufactured snares is around 30% lower than Thompsons comparable snares.

Not to mention all the other good info on his site.

Where do you get your net line/cord from Doc? I am having a dickens of a time finding a good supplier.

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Doc. Just a heads up all. Trap-snare-survive.com's prices on pre manufactured snares is around 30% lower than Thompsons comparable snares.

Not to mention all the other good info on his site.

Where do you get your net line/cord from Doc? I am having a dickens of a time finding a good supplier.

Hey wildmike,

Thanks for the heads-up.

If you find a good cord supplier, let me know as well. The pictured items are made from jute. My purpose was to learn how to make them, so the cordage wasn't as important.

Doc

 

[GPB]

I'm glad, GBP, that you brought this topic up, because of my aforementioned trap trigger affection, and I know you certainly have coote's attention.

Oh, BTW, did I mention that I also make nets?

-----------------Snapping Turtle trap---------------------------------------------------------------Copy of a West Coast Cod landing net.

Doc

Thanks Doc, those nets are nice!

Here's a good marine cordage from Mariner http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...3_151000000_151011000?cmCat=CROSSSELL_PRODUCT

They also have a tarred version.

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Thanks Doc, those nets are nice!

Here's a good marine cordage from Mariner http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...3_151000000_151011000?cmCat=CROSSSELL_PRODUCT

They also have a tarred version.

I bought some marine cordage from Jann's Netcraft in two different sizes - it didn't hold knots worth a damn.

I bought it specifically for making slings - my slings have netted pockets - all the knots loosened up.

An example of my slings:

I was at a heritage fair during the summer and checked out some cordage a broom maker was using. It has potential, I just haven't followed up on it yet.

Doc

 

[wildmike]

Doc get the Bonded Seine twine instead of th marine cordage. It is supposed to hold knots much better.

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Doc get the Bonded Seine twine instead of th marine cordage. It is supposed to hold knots much better.

Thanks wildmike. I bought the marine cordage because the web site says, "Our bonded nylon is the best net making and net repair material available.The secret of this twine is in the special bonding agent. Without being messy, the bonding agent holds knots like no other treatment weve used".

Any place you recommend?

Doc